Later On

A blog written for those whose interests more or less match mine.

Salba = Chia seed

with 435 comments

Apparently Salba ($30/lb) is just a registered trademark for a particular variety of chia. You can also get generic chia seeds. See here. Note price difference. And it’s $6/lb here. [It was at the time---the price has gone up. - LG]

UPDATE * : It’s only fair to note that Salba (the patented [not patented, as it turns out - LG]variety that really put chia on the map) was the subject of this nutritional study. Aviva sells both generic chia and Salba. And SourceSalba is the Salba home. This post has some interesting information, including links to videos about Salba and the difference between Salba and generic chia.

UPDATE 2: I notice that now Amazon.com offers chia seed, including some with no shipping charge.

UPDATE 3: Policy for this thread: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. I’m tired of the accusations and counter-accusations.

* UPDATE 4: Regarding the first update, please not corrective information in this comment.

Written by LeisureGuy

14 August 2007 at 11:26 am

Posted in Business, Daily life, Food

435 Responses

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  1. Salba is NOT just a registered trademark for chia seeds. That is like saying a yellow rose is the same as a red rose.

    From http://www.salba.info :

    The differences between Salba® and Chia are significant:

    Salba® is nutritionally consistent
    Salba® is higher in Omega-3 Fatty Acids than Mexican Chia
    Salba® is higher in Protein than Mexican Chia
    Salba® is more aesthetically appealing in food preparation
    Salba® has higher water absorption capacity than Mexican Chia
    Salba® is whitish grey in color/Chia is mostly black
    Salba® has white flowers/Chia has blue/purple flowers
    Salba® is grown under controlled conditions
    Salba® is a registered variety

    Most importantly,

    Salba® is the only type of Salvia hispanica that has undergone intensive clinical examination

    Kayleen

    15 August 2007 at 7:35 am

  2. Salba is the seed of the plant Salvia hispanica L. So is chia seed.

    When you say Mexican Chia are you referring to a specific variety or cultivar, or simply the country of origin? Not clear.

    You can readily buy white Chia seed—and it’s organically grown.

    Some interesting nutritional information about chia seed.

    A FAQ concerning chia seed.

    While Salba may be somewhat better nutritionally than other varieties, I also must consider price. It’s $30/lb vs. the $6/lb that I paid: 5 times as much. Is it 5 times better? I wonder.

    LeisureGuy

    15 August 2007 at 7:43 am

  3. LeisureGuy, I’ve been asking myself the same question.

    I aim to eat an ounce of chia seed every day. I sprinkle it over my salads, mix it into a smoothie, or whip up a “chia fresca” on a hot afternoon. I use Salba and black chia seed interchangeably.

    A month’s supply of black chia seed (2 pounds) costs me about $12. Salba would cost $60. Really, I think that’s too much money.

    However, I’ve been to Toronto and met with the folks who invested their life savings in growing and marketing chia seed as Salba. They are passionate about their mission, and give me confidence that their product will meet the highest possible standards. They can’t really afford to make any mistakes.

    I bought my black chia seed from other sources, (www.chiativity.org), and later began to worry about it. Had it been inspected? How could I really know if it was organic? What if it was contaminated in processing? WHO was I trusting?

    Yes, when we buy bulk grains at our health food store, we rely upon some form of regulation, but even then, don’t we get meal moths larvae in our rice? (I know I do.)

    Anyway, I’ll continue to eat both types, but for now, I won’t sell black chia seed for human consumption.

    However, it still works great on a Chia Pet!!

    Margaret

    18 August 2007 at 5:10 pm

  4. MORE:

    Kayleen said, “Salba is NOT just a registered trademark for chia seeds. That is like saying a yellow rose is the same as a red rose.”

    That’s not quite right.

    I’m a botanist. Botanically, the two forms of Salvia hispanica (black seeded and white seeded) are simply varieties. But the black seeded type (which includes about 1/4 white seeds) seems to be the “wild type.” It seems that the white seeded variety has been selectively bred from the wild type until no more black seeds appear.

    So to improve on Kayleen’s analogy:

    “Salba is NOT just a registered trademark for chia seeds. That is like saying a wild rose is the same as an American Beauty Rose.”

    Margaret

    18 August 2007 at 5:21 pm

  5. Well, you can buy white chia seed at a lower price than the $30/lb for Salba: it’s $12/lb here. (This same link is in the post.)

    LeisureGuy

    18 August 2007 at 7:55 pm

  6. While so-called ‘black’ and ‘white’ chia seeds may differ in certain respects, there is absolutely no substantial nutritional difference. In fact, the increasing availability of the white seeds just confirms what studies show: if you plant white chia seeds, you get white chia, and if you plant black seeds, you get black chia. As you sow…you reap.

    In fact, most natural chia contains a blend of brown, black, gray, and white chia. These colors are quite beautiful.

    Chia has been grown for centuries. And organic chia was available long before anyone decided white seeds should be selected out and cultivated. The Aztecs certainly didn’t alter Nature’s design. Moreover, the health benefits (essential fats, fiber, etc.) can be gained by eating chia of any color. Since the same health benefits exist for any color, pick whatever color you like. But seriously why pay more for white, if it costs so much more?

    I’ve tried many different brands of chia, which I eat every day. I’ve been very satisfied with several brands of high-quality organic chia. I favor the natural mix of colors.

    Here is one source providing excellent quality chia:

    http://www.integratedhealth.com

    Omega26

    26 August 2007 at 11:26 am

  7. By the way, here is a link to another site that may help consumers make better decisions regarding chia.

    It appears that chia (of any color) takes its nutrients from the soil where it’s grown, so that soil type and climate are the most significant factors behind the nutritional value in chia. This means that it matters more where and how chia is grown than any color it may exhibit. It also means, for example, that organically grown chia from nutrient rich soils is best. Note that most white chia (including Salba) is not organically grown. That could change, but in the meantime, there’s every reason to consume the organic, natural chia seeds.

    Omega26

    8 September 2007 at 1:20 am

  8. Salba is infact only a TRADEMARK.

    White Chia seeds are white chia seeds.
    The analogy above is not quite right, actually…
    a wild rose is a wild rose is a more proper analogy.

    If you have white chia seeds from Peru from the field across the road from where Salba purchase their seeds…what exactly would be the difference?
    If these other white chia seeds have been certified organic…

    Instead of selling under the Trademark Salba for $30 per pound and selling at a reasonable price is a sound practice.
    Worse than that is selling Salba for $60 per pound in England.

    P.S.
    Having staff from Salba come on this blog under other names…well a great marketting plan…but truthful??? Well that is another question where only Karma will answer.

    Salba dude

    14 September 2007 at 1:23 pm

  9. Ive just moved to Panama. Do you ship there?

    Nick Wiebe

    19 September 2007 at 9:39 am

  10. To whom is your question addressed?

    LeisureGuy

    19 September 2007 at 9:44 am

  11. Nick,

    Since you’ve moved to Panama, you can probably grow your own chia plants there — because that region is ideal for growing chia.

    In addition to consuming chia seeds, you can also grow fantastic chia sprouts (think chia pets!). I use several standard sprouters for growing chia sprouts in my own kitchen. They taste great on salads, sandwiches, or just by themselves.

    Note: stray chia seeds spontaneously sprout in sink drainers and sponges. Fortunately, my cats enjoy eating these ‘stray’ sprouts!

    If you’re interested in chia seeds being shipped to Panama, I think most purveyors would be happy to ship there. You can google around for shipping rates. I get mine from IntegratedHealth.com. I believe they ship globally, so you can call or visit their website for rates to your location.

    Omega26

    20 September 2007 at 2:24 pm

  12. Sounds as though the chia had started to sprout, with the white moss being root tendrils. Just a guess, but it is seed, and with water, it will sprout. A seed’s gotta do what a seed’s gotta do.

    LeisureGuy

    24 September 2007 at 1:41 pm

  13. Hey.. do you know what its called when you leave chia in contact with water for a few days?, because i did it, and it started smelling really funky, and developed a sort of white moss or mist inside the water.

    YD

    24 September 2007 at 1:32 pm

  14. The key to fresh, great-tasting chia sprouts is using an effective sprouting device. Kitchen sprouters are available in most health food stores and everywhere online, or you can make your own sprouter (e.g., a small box with a mesh screen). An effective chia sprouter will offer reasonably good capacity (so you can evenly spread the seeds) and holes small enough to contain them. A lid is always a plus.

    I recommend frequent rinsing of chia sprouts to keep them fresh. Excessive moisture causes mold growth. But if they lack moisture, they will dry up. Find the right balance.

    Alternatively, use a chia pet or a small planter. Experiment for yourself, and soon you will enjoy fresh, organic chia sprouts. They are excellent on salads, sandwiches, wraps, or just all by themselves!

    Omega26

    27 September 2007 at 5:53 pm

  15. Good Day,

    I wanted to write a short comment to clarify a few things on this blog. For anyone who may think that we have employees writing on this blog, I promise you that we do not. In fact, today is the first time this blog was brought to my attention.

    To clarify just a couple of things about the Salba Grain. Salvia Hispanica L. is the seed name. It would in fact be like saying ‘Rose’ and not the actual varietal name that you are referring to…meaning it is a broad name/term. Salba includes two Registered Varieties of Salvia Hispanica L., Sahi Alba 911 and Sahi Alba 912. These two varieties currently have patents pending. These are the only two varieties on which the clinical studies have been performed.

    The very consistent nutritional factors and the consistent white color of Salba are due to a 14 year cultivation of the Salvia Hispanica L. seed and continual perfection of our registered varieties of this seed that make Salba.

    Simply said, Salba can make certain claims based on scientific research. If there are studies by others who have different varieties of Salvia Hispanic L., I am simply unaware, but no one in this company claims what other products do or don’t do. We only claim what Salba has been clinically proven to do.

    I hope this clarifies some of the debate. Salba truly is a unique product. There is no other product like ours and that is simply a fact. There are many great ancient grains, many of which I incorporate into my diet as well, such as Amaranth, Quinoa, and Millet. I would suggest anyone who is interested in creating a totally healthy diet to increase their intake of all these grains, which – coincidentally are all gluten-free. Salba is certified Gluten Free as well. A combination of the grains makes delicious breads and other baked goods too! If you go to http://www.SalbaUSA.com, you can find other great recipes for use with Salba!

    Thank you all for your interest in our grain. We truly feel good about what we do. I hope this short bit of information clears up any confusion about our Grain vs. Chia.

    Sincerely,
    Elizabeth Parrillo
    National Sales Director
    5703 Red Bug Lake Road, Ste 190
    Winter Springs, FL 32708
    407-671-5525 x 903
    elizabeth@corenaturals.com

    Have a truly Healthy, Happy and Blessed Day!

    Elizabeth Parrillo

    4 October 2007 at 11:40 am

  16. Thank you, Elizabeth. The information you’ve provided is quite helpful.

    LeisureGuy

    4 October 2007 at 11:58 am

  17. I am not an objective observer because I am in the Chia business, see our website http://www.benexia.com. What I can say though is very easy:

    1) Compare the nutritional contents of Salba and regular Chia.

    2) As differences are not dramatic (they are actually insignificant), you can take a bit more of the regular chia. There is no limit to consumption anyway.

    3) You will see that regular chia, from certified origin, remains a lot cheaper even if you take more and brings the same benefits as Salba.

    Salba is more expensive because it is grown intensively and demands artificial irrigation. Our chia is grown extensively and with rain.

    To get white seed, you can select the white seed and sow them only, or you can use a machine with a laser that can select white from black seeds.

    No rocket science is involved.

    The accurate information is always at hand, you just have to check the claims.

    Regards,
    Alain Kaczorowski

    Alain Kaczorowski

    19 October 2007 at 2:33 pm

  18. Patents pending or not, the scientific evidence shows no substantial difference between white chia and chia having other colors.

    The “book” on Chia seeds was written by Ayerza and Coates of the University of Arizona, not by an agribusiness set on global dominance. You can find their excellent book here.

    While the corporations pushing sales of white chia may not themselves make false claims, what about their distributors? For example, I’ve seen at least one ad claiming that researchers found “nothing remarkable” in black chia seeds, but that “white ones tested off the charts.” Nothing could be further from the truth. This is false advertising at best, and basically an outright lie.

    Ayerza and Coates tested the nutritional content of white and black chia seeds, and found no significant difference. Here are their results.

    Ignorance of valid scientific studies showing the effectiveness of all colors of chia is no excuse for looking at all the facts.

    Moreover, the notion of a patent on a natural seed is a curious one. Not so long ago, seeds were basically not patentable. The Founding Fathers put in strict prohibitions on the patenting of life forms. Is not life fundamentally sacred?

    But the agribusiness corporations (like Monsanto) eventually got their way, despite dubious legal precedent. Now we’ve got all kinds of patented plants and animals, many of which are transgenic, i.e., genetically modified or GMO. The goal is, of course, ownership of living matter and…profits.

    There is no doubt that chia (black or white) is good for you. Just don’t blindly believe claims for the superiority of a particular color. Such claims are bought and paid for. The extra dollars you may shell out for white chia pays for those marketing budgets.

    Educated consumers will pay more for better products. But if the product is no better, they won’t or at least shouldn’t. In an age of nutritional confusion, first seek out the facts, so you can make better informed choices.

    Amanda

    19 October 2007 at 3:40 pm

  19. Thank you all for these comments.. I receive a newsletter that made claims about Salba and I was concerned that a natural grain had a trademark!!

    All of this information has confirmed my concern!!

    Will go look for chia seeds at my local co-op!

    Susan

    Susan

    23 October 2007 at 7:42 am

  20. Is it true that Chia, taken daily, will reduce cholesterol. If so, what’s the daily recommended dose. I just heard about Chia yesterday so don’t know much about it.

    Jean

    23 November 2007 at 5:45 am

  21. Since it’s a food and not a medicine, it doesn’t really have a dose as such. A serving is 2-4 Tbsp (I’ve seen it defined both as 2 Tbsp and as 4 Tbsp (= 1/4 cup). I put 2 Tbsp in with my cereal. The cholesterol-lowering activity is due, I imagine, to a combination of the omega-3 content and the soluble fiber content. (Oats also work to reduce cholesterol, and their action is via the soluble fiber—my daily cereal is cooked oat groats.)

    I’m just finishing up a book that will include a list of foods with significant health benefits. It may be of interest. Should be available a week from today. Check back.

    LeisureGuy

    23 November 2007 at 7:19 am

  22. It comes down to eating healthy. If you eat from the four food groups 1)whole grains 2) Legumes 3) fruits 4) vegetables you will get all the nutrients for long healthy life. There is no One magic food. Supplements are a medicine at best and a toxin at worse. Chia/Salba/other grains should be eaten daily. I’m not a nutritionist or dietician, I’m a physician (and most physicians know very little about diet and health), but I have been putting people on whole foods as grown diet with no added oils and have seen the reversal of diseases including atherosclerosis, diabetes, hypertension, depression, arthritis, to name a few. After all those years of college, medical school, residency, it turns out you don’t have to be a Dr. to help people be healthy

    Larry

    26 November 2007 at 7:19 pm

  23. Hear, hear!

    LeisureGuy

    26 November 2007 at 7:22 pm

  24. To whom It may concern,
    My husband and I take Salba from Northstar nutritional, We just started to take It for a week and so far we like It. I appreciate knowing all about Salba from other sources. I didn’t know that there is organically grown Salba
    Thank you for reading my comment,
    jimntess2001@yahoo.com

    Theresa

    26 November 2007 at 10:59 pm

  25. I find the way this product, Salba is promoted to be deliberately misleading and dishonest.

    The various nutritional comparisons with other foods are pointless when the cost is taken into account. You certainly would not look at it as a protein source, there are many good, high quality nutritionally ideal sources of protein at a realistic cost. It is claimed to have more Omega3 than flaxseed. So? I pay AU $2.98 for 500 gms, (which is a little over a pound) for flaxseed. I can eat another small spoonful per day and surpass the ridiculously high cost of Salba. They claim fifteen times more Magnesium than Broccoli. So what? Broccoli is not by any means the highest source of Magnesium in common foods. Why compare it to Broccoli? This is deliberately misleading. They don’t mention that in order to get your RDA of Magnesium from Salba, you would need to eat more than a pound of it, so why mention it at all?

    They also claim that it controls BG levels in diabetics. It doesn’t. That is a patently false claim. It claims to reduce hypertension. It doesn’t, another false claim. It goes on to claim forty times the anti-oxidant value of red wine. Why? Who drinks red wine purely as an anti-oxidant. A very small handful of blanched almonds would far surpass Salba in anti-oxidant value.

    The whole thing is a scam, it is promoted in a deliberately misleading manner. If this product was as inexpensive as conventional grains, then yes, it would be of value, but at the prices charged, the amounts that can be consumed go nowhere toward providing a realistic increase in health benefit. The whole approach is to compare apples with bananas. They mention a number of foods conventionally regarded as being healthful and select only those where this product can surpass (weight for weight) those products in some way. They don’t mention for instance, that a normal sized meal containing Broccoli WILL contain more magnesium than Salba at the supplement level recommended.

    Anyone who buys this expecting an increase in health is wasting their money, all of the nutritional value in Salba can be obtained for a fraction of the cost from other healthy and far more inexpensive foods. As for patenting the plant, good luck. It won’t stand here, (Australia) I can already purchase Chia from any number of sources, and it is still only Chia, regardless of how they are growing it. Many people I know sprout Chia and either eat the sprouts in salads or cold press them for a drink that nutritionally far surpasses wheatgrass or anything that Salba can claim, and at a minute fraction of the cost.

    Regards

    Tony Cameron

    Anthony Cameron

    6 December 2007 at 2:12 pm

  26. I think chia seed is a pretty good food, but you want to buy it at a reasonable price. To get the omega-3 from flaxseed, you pretty much have to grind it (and of course many people do); otherwise the seeds survive the digestive tract. Wikipedia notes, “Chia seeds typically contain 20% protein, 34% oil, 25% dietary fiber (mostly soluble with high molecular weight), and significant levels of antioxidants… The oil from chia seeds contains a very high concentration of omega-3 fatty acid — approximately 64%.” Unlike flaxseed, chia seeds are digestible without grinding. The protein from chia seed is a complete protein, containing all essential amino acids. So it’s not a bad thing to have in the diet—but certainly not worth US$30/lb.

    LeisureGuy

    6 December 2007 at 3:48 pm

  27. You can also search the USDA Nutrient database for nutritional information on chia.

    LeisureGuy

    7 December 2007 at 8:20 am

  28. For the guy in Panama, trot down to your local public market. You will probably find chia there is bulk. In Estelí, Nicaragua lots of vendors have it. Frescos made from chia are pretty common here as well.

    I will check buy my wife guessed it is between $1 and $1.50/lb.

    Phil Hughes

    27 December 2007 at 5:20 am

  29. Just wondering how difficult it would be to purchase the white seeds (salba) once and grow them into adult plants so they can produce their own seeds for consumption. Have any of you tried this? Any ideas on this subject?

    Sky

    27 December 2007 at 7:02 am

  30. is there a nutrional difference between Hyptis suaveolens and Salvia hispanica. Also, which chia seed would you recomend has the best nutrional content?

    Thanks

    Medardo

    8 January 2008 at 12:02 pm

  31. The Latin American plant CHAN (“Hyptis suaveolens L.”) contains approximately 77-80% linoleic acid (omega-6), but offers little or no linolenic acid (omega-3).

    This means chan is not a balanced source of essential fatty acids. Moreover, chan’s total oil yield is low compared to other commercial oil crops, including CHIA (Salvia hispanica L.).

    In contrast to chan, chia seeds contain both omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in a very favorable ratio. In fact, chia provides up to 60% linolenic acid (omega-3) and a total oil content as high as 39%. Very impressive for a tiny seed.

    Nutritionists for years have touted the benefits of omega-3s. However, a real benefit of chia is that it offers balanced omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, because both types of fats are required for our health. While Western diets lack omega-3s, overcompensating for this lack by overconsuming omega-3 relative to omega-6 creates its own health challenges. We need both types of fats.

    There is consequently no comparison between chia and chan, at least not in terms of suitability as a balanced source of essential fats.

    Chia wins this contest hands down. Balanced essential fats are just one more reason individuals interested in good health are consuming more chia seeds — especially organic chia seeds — and why chia is finally gaining much deserved recognition as a superstar among superfoods.

    Omega26

    11 January 2008 at 9:29 pm

  32. Thanks to all for your very useful and interesting information concerning Chia.

    Doug

    14 January 2008 at 2:48 am

  33. Check out http://www.GetChia.com
    I didn’t see recipes, but they say thay have food items with chia coming soon and their pricing is unbeatable and has free shipping!

    Mahalo

    Anonymous

    19 January 2008 at 8:21 am

  34. I would like to sprout chia. Anyone know of an easy and inexpensive way with out having to buy a chia pet head….lol.
    The dialogue here has been most helpful and interesting to say the least.

    Carol

    19 January 2008 at 11:20 am

  35. I’ve watched products like this over and over…. come and go, come and go. They always have the same claims…. because their patented nostrum is tested, therefore its better, and warrants the outrageous price. That’s like arguing that air samples taken 100 feet apart from the desert, has only been tested in one of the two locations, so that this ought to conclude that the untested sample is this risky uncertainty which should compel you to only breath the patented air, at a gouging and immoral price. I’ve seen this over and over in the health industry. Consumers should disregard all such dollar-driven hype, and hear those who are out to help them, not rob them. So often natural health people are no different than the allopathic for motives and blindness to their greed-driven paradigm.

    Charles

    28 January 2008 at 7:47 am

  36. First time comment. Whether chia or anything else, anything taken as something “supplemental” to our regular diet should be weighed carefully as to its benefits versus any possible harm it could cause. My husband has taken almost every supplement ever known to man and he now has incredibly bad kidneys. I have no scientific basis as far as definitely pointing to supplements – just common sense. If your body has to process it, your kidneys have to filter it at some point. Balance in all things is my rule of thumb. Make a life change to create the amount of what has been proven by time to be what YOUR body needs, live that lifestyle consistently and you won’t need very much, if any, supplementation of any sort. Anything else is wasting your money at the very least, and ruining your health at worst. I totally agree with Anthony Cameron on his comments. Fast food, for instance, would be something that your common sense tells you won’t keep you healthy. But a bit here or there probably won’t kill you if you balance it out with good nutrition.

    Whether it is the pharmaceutical industry or the vitamin/supplement industry, my opinion and advice would be know that a product in and of itself will not allow you to eat whatever you want and not gain weight, and never exercise and expect a pill to make your body healthy. That’s from 10 years of watching my husband of 300+ pounds, no exercise and enough food to feed 3 people take every supplement known to man and I have seen NO change except for the worst. My theory has always been that he is looking for something that will let him eat a gallon of ice cream, all the food he wants of any sort, not exercise at all, and still be healthy, wealthy and wise. Not happening as far as I am aware. The money would be better spent on finding out why one is driven to buy these things with no actual health benefits or results. And if you think because things are on the internet, or have “Dr.” somewhere in the advertisement, check your gullibility meter.

    White chia black black chia, anything in between, DO YOU NEED IT? How does it benefit you? Does it cause any harm to you? Substitute whatever product you may be buying for “chia” and give it the same test. Buyer beware of any product, especially if someone is making big bucks from something they don’t spend a lot of money to produce. Trust me, it is not your health they have in mind, its their wealth.

    Barbara

    Barbara Dourrieu

    3 February 2008 at 3:50 pm

  37. Chia or Salba (same thing) is a food not a supplement.

    Dawn

    4 February 2008 at 9:12 am

  38. I’m very interested improving my diet, consuming flax oil, quinoa and raw veggies more often. I saw adds for Salba and thought it odd that one could patent a grain/seed or anything that grows from the earth. I find it shocking and scary.
    Would their be legal issues if I bought Salba and planted the entire bag to grow for the consumption of my friends, family and myself? If Salba is so superior to chia seed, then I would certainly do so.

    Clay

    4 February 2008 at 8:42 pm

  39. Patenting plant varieties is pretty common. But why not just get regular chia seed? Or consider that a complete and healthful diet does not depend on having any one food—lucky for us. Many people manage without chia, and if you do want to add it to your diet, just get one of the regular variety.

    LeisureGuy

    5 February 2008 at 9:07 am

  40. Just saw Oprah about Chia. Not really looking to eat a handful. It seems Chia Oil works, but I read you lose the fiber. Anybody know if a pill is available?

    firemanbob

    5 February 2008 at 5:53 pm

  41. What are you looking for from chia? If it’s the omega-3, you’re better off taking fish-oil capsules (wild salmon is my own choice there). I eat chia as part of my morning hot cereal—and I like getting the fiber.

    LeisureGuy

    5 February 2008 at 5:59 pm

  42. I became interested in Chia hoping that adding it to gluten free flour would assist with binding and bulking…….. IT DOES…… then I became facinated with its story, its history, and the mad cap industry that is setting up around the so called ‘better’ grain – SALBA……. chia seeds of mixed colours work just fine for me and are easier on the $$$$ also. They are only just becoming known here in Australia, but I have found a source and will keep on using it in baking and in my morning juice.

    mcharris

    6 February 2008 at 2:08 am

  43. Seems I’ve missed 6 months of interesting conversation. I’ve got alot to say, but will start with this.

    I don’t believe in “superfoods” and I’m really not crazy about Goji berries and all the fad foods that are out there. However, chia is different. It is a delicious, inexpensive, healthy whole grain, with a long tradition of human consumption.

    Foods like chia, which are high in omega-3 fatty acids, are presently missing from our diet, partly because the fat we get from animal products is no longer high in omega-3 fatty acids (since we started feeding cows on corn rather than grass). Omega-3 fatty acids are involved in a number of fundamental biological processes in the human body, not the least of which is the creation of stress hormones. You’ve probably read about this somewhere else.

    We are also deficient in fiber, especially soluble fiber (as in beans and oatmeal) which has been shown to be important for heart health and for slowing digestion and preventing the blood sugar spikes that can lead to diabetes.

    Chia was once a critical part of human diets in the area where it was first cultivated thousands of years ago. In fact, we now know that chia was the second most important crop of the Aztecs (less important than corn but more important than beans, amaranth, chiles, and chocolate).

    And on another matter:
    Someone asked: can you plant chia (or Salba) seeds and grow them for your family? The answer seems to be “not yet.” Chia requires a 150 day growing period (at a minimum) and must have a certain daylength to begin flowering. On Long Island, that means that flowering is delayed until the end of October, right about the time of the first frost. There are efforts to breed chia seed that is daylength insensitive, and when that happens, you will be able to grow it at any latitude, but for now, chia can only be grown in the dry subtropics.

    Sorry for the length of this post. I have lots more information on my website http://www.chiativity.org. I don’t sell chia seed, but have a blogroll of chia distributors.

    Please come and leave me a comment.

    Margaret

    Margaret

    6 February 2008 at 12:12 pm

  44. Oh yes, someone asked about a chia pill.

    http://www.chiaseedandoil.com sells a chia seed pill, but it contains only the oil; the fiber has been removed. I agree with Leisure Guy that fish oil capsules are a better alternative as a source of omega-3 fatty acids.

    Margaret

    6 February 2008 at 12:16 pm

  45. (At the risk that Leisure Guy is going to kick me off for multiple posts -LOL)

    Getting back to the rose analogy:

    Salba is a variety of Salvia hispanica. It was bred over a period of 14 years to have specific qualities. The breeders have applied for a patent (and yes, plants may be patented) and have protected the name, Salba, with a trademark.

    Chia seed (white or black) is the “wild type.” It has had little or no human intervention, so one seed is genetically different from any other seed. There is no protection or quality assurance provided.

    Like Salba, American Beauty Roses (and other varieties of rose hybrids) were bred over many years to have specific characters. Most of these roses are both patented and trademarked to protect the breeder’s financial investment in creating these varieties.

    If I go down to the beach and pick a “wild rose,” it’s very different. No one can own the rights to wild roses. No one spent thousands of dollars breeding them.

    Salba is a patented trademarked variety of chia seed.
    The American Beauty Rose is a patented trademarked variety of wild rose.

    Margaret (that’s all for now, sorry.)

    Margaret

    6 February 2008 at 12:41 pm

  46. I have sprouted some Salba and want to know whether I can get the same benefits from the green leaves in salad and on a sandwich, etc.

    Rosemary

    13 February 2008 at 6:10 am

  47. Rosemary, although I know of no published studies on this topic, the answer is probably no, you get very different benefits from eating sprouted chia. Neither the omega-3 fatty acids nor the fiber are retained in the sprouts.

    Why? Seedlings, as they sprout, use the nutrients stored in the seed in order to build new cells and tissues. Omega-3 fatty acids are most likely used as energy in order to create cellulose and other components of whole plants. The beneficial fiber remains as part of the seed coat, and so you don’t eat that either. The potassium and other minerals don’t go anywhere, so at least you will benefit from them.

    Margaret

    14 February 2008 at 3:40 pm

  48. Dani.

    Interesting read.i am not a health food freak but like to try different things that could be of benefit without the ridicilous cost that these people sell their products.

    I live in Argentina but don’t get the info about the health food industry that you in USA get.Could be a good thing?
    Maybe I can buy some chia seeds here cause we pay import tax on goods sent here,more expense.

    Some bloke on here says this salba stuff is $60 a pound in UK,perhaps I could get hold on some and take it back to England with me,better still take the seeds….
    suerte…

    dani

    17 February 2008 at 5:55 pm

  49. I am thinking about purchasing Chia Seeds and an unsure of how to store them. I plan on mixing 1 Tablespoon with a glass of water or juice. Should they stay refridgerated? I read that they need to be hydrated, but don’t want them to start sprouting. What do I do?

    Nancy

    23 February 2008 at 6:35 pm

  50. Nancy, you can just put your chia gel in the fridge. I’ve read that it will last up to 2 weeks in the fridge. The seeds won’t grow at this temperature.

    Until you hydrate them, you can store the seeds at room temperature, like you would rice or any other grain.

    Margaret

    24 February 2008 at 3:50 pm

  51. On another website, I saw where they are selling Chia seeds for human consumption and also another for dogs. Since they were both priced approx $11 per pound I wrote them and asked what was the difference between the human and dog Chia seeds? They wrote back and said that they were both the same just different labels so that people would know which was theirs and which was for the dogs…because some people don’t want to eat from the same package as their dog.

    That doesn’t make any sense to me and now I’m leery of the product and certainly concerned about the quality of it. I don’t it would bother my dog to eat from same package…(grin)

    Jack

    26 February 2008 at 1:43 pm

  52. It’s true that there are different grades of chia seed. Some is sold only as chicken feed (for those great omega-3 eggs). In my experience, the main difference between the grades is the amount of chaff (aka twigs and leaves).

    But $11 a pound is high for anything other than the very best grade of chia seed.

    I suggest that if this is a concern, you should go with Salba. Although it is more expensive, it’s of the highest quality.

    P.S. I’d be grateful if you could provide a link to the chia dogfood website. Thanks.

    Margaret

    27 February 2008 at 11:05 am

  53. I have gone through most of the posts in your blog for this year. There is a lot of discussion about Salva and Chía and about black and White Chía.

    Chía is not a “wild” plant as some Salva defendants claim. Chía has been grown and selected through more that 3,500 years! Salva, has gone through this process just for the last 14 years and the point of departure is Salvia hispanica (Chia). If 14 years of modern crop selection can match or overcome 3,500 years of Chia cultivation and selection, I can’t say.
    There are growers in Mexico which are cultivating white chia. They simply select the white seeds from the black seeds and sow the white seeds. In no time they get white chia. Color genetics in Chia has not been studied as far as I know and these growers are just following the lead of Salva for the color. What really matters is what is inside.
    Price difference between Salva and Chia is more noticeable than the nutritional difference, no question. If Chia works for me, why should I go for Salva?
    One last point. All Chia I have seen growing in South America and Mexico, is sowed as a crop rotation program after Corn. This is, if one year Corn has been sowed in a field, the next year they may switch to Chia.
    I have not seen such a thing as “organic” corn growing in Mexico or South America and I could be wrong, but to get an organic certification, you have to show evidence that no chemical fertilizers or pesticides have been sprayed in the field. Chia does not require pesticides, however, it is fertilized with chemical fertilizers and no one can produce a legitimate organic certificate for the above reasons.

    Charro

    3 March 2008 at 3:55 pm

  54. Correct. There is presently no certified organic chia seed or Salba produced anywhere in the world for exactly that reason.

    But let me clarify my earlier statement. By “wild type” I meant the non-trademarked, non-patented chia seed that is sold as chia seed rather than Salba. Various strains of this “generic” chia have been in cultivation, as you pointed out, for thousands of years. These strains of chia are now being tested and sold.

    I made an analogy between the wild rose vs. American Beauty Rose and chia vs. Salba. Another analogy would be tomato vs. Burpee Big Boy Tomato. In each case, the plant breeder has sought a trademark or patent to protect the variety of plant, to distinguish it from the “generic” type. In some cases the trademarked variety is demonstrably better than the generic.

    Margaret

    5 March 2008 at 3:22 pm

  55. I think I’ll go ahead and buy 3 lbs of Chia and share it with my dogs. The website you ask about is chiaforhealth.com and that’s where I plan to buy the chia. It’s not a bad price and I trust that it’s good quality.

    Jack

    6 March 2008 at 9:14 am

  56. I suggest that you serve them separately: they don’t like it when others eat out of their dish. :)

    LeisureGuy

    6 March 2008 at 9:30 am

  57. I am in Toronto, Canada and have begun purchasing Salba for $28 for a 360 gm package. When I went out checking for chia seeds, the price was not much different. Anyone know where I can buy them cheap in Toronto?

    troy

    12 March 2008 at 1:55 pm

  58. I was looking for a Chia Pill instead of sprinkling the seeds and when I did a google search, this is the first site that came up. Does anyone know if Chia comes in a pill format…aside from just the Chia Oil. I’m looking for the fiber, too.

    Jeff

    18 March 2008 at 10:49 am

  59. Hi, It’s my first time posting on here. Great blog by the way on Chia/Salba. I bought Salba last year for $27/pound and found that to be a little too much. I then searched for other sources and found that Chia seeds are pretty much the same thing as Salba. I found a few stores on ebay that sell 100% Organic, Natural, Certified Kosher, Gluten Free, etc. on ebay for great prices. They ship to most places in the world:

    http://search.ebay.ca/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=chia+seeds&category0=

    I’ve been purchasing Chia seeds from ebay for the past 9 months. I had no problems at all. The Chia seeds are fresh and great quality. I hope this helps.

    Anwar

    18 March 2008 at 8:45 pm

  60. Hey guys. Just new to the site but loved hearing all of the difference perspectives. I eat Chia seeds every day. For a while I used to eat the seeds by Salba. I was spending a ridiculous amount of money for pretty much no reason. One day a few months ago, I was looking for quinoa. I stumbled upon this site called NutsOnline.com. Unreal! They had chia seeds for $4.99 a pound. http://www.nutsonline.com/seedsspices/chia-seeds.html
    I haven’t even seen chia this cheap in my local health food store. I was a little skeptical at first but after reading up on them they seemed like a legit family business. None the less, I ordered the Chia and quinoa. Let me tell you something, no more Salba for me. These were just as good and the desired results were equal to the Salba. I highly recommend this place.

    James

    19 March 2008 at 8:37 am

  61. ‘The proof is in the pudding’-for all you people out there consuming chia/salba seeds, are you better off/healthy ?. Can you tell a difference in how you feel? Do you have any medical test results that suggest better results because you have consumed the chia/salba seeds? Any TRUE testimonials?

    Jean

    22 March 2008 at 7:42 am

  62. what is the daily recomended amount of seed. I read 20 gr twice a day. Is that dry or mixed with 9 parts water? Is 20 gr the same as 20 ml?

    Lisa

    25 March 2008 at 3:02 pm

  63. There is no set recommended amount. Everybody’s body is different so it will depend on a few things as to how much you should use. Slim build and fast metabolism may only need between 5 to 10 grams in order to feel the benefits and a heavier slower metabolism person will need 10 to 25 grams for it to be of any noticeable difference. Take it for 30 days and if you don’t feel: more energy at the end of the day, (and I don’t mean you’re jumping out of your skin like with too much caffeine) better concentration, better mood, (ask your wife or husband) and just over all you just feel better then you need to adjust how you use it. It does work better when you have it in water or juice and it has been hydrated enough.
    Keep your eye on the price because if it is too cheap there is a reason like it is not fresh, or it was a bad harvest because of late rains or early frosts you get what you pay for. For good quality chia seeds you should pay around $10 to $20 a pound in the US and from $15 to $20 per 500 grams in Australia.
    I have personally worked with over 1000 people using chia seeds with just about every kind of body type and for about every reason for taking them you can imagine and we work close with ALL our customers to see they get the best use from the right amount. We have plenty of testimonials but we don’t advertise them or use them to get sales. If you give it an honest try you will feel them working and why you feel them is another story in itself.
    You can read some of the reasons why at http://www.chia4life.com.au/blog.htm
    We sell world wide at http://www.chia4life and http://www.chiaseeds.au In Australia we sell only premium Australian Grown Chia Seeds and will be soon throughout the rest of the world but for now our US and other country sales are premium chia seeds grown in South America because it is more cost effective to mail from the USA. We will be happy to help see you receive the best from using them in your diet whether you are our customer or not.

    John

    29 March 2008 at 8:01 pm

  64. John

    29 March 2008 at 8:04 pm

  65. Obviously Salba has to sell at that high price to pay for all its marketing efforts and patent applications.

    In my opinion nothing naturally grown should be allowed to be patented.

    I’ll go for the regular white chia.

    If we believe that we need a company to extensively test a seed to assure its apparantly higher nutritional value then we would also need to believe that all other foods should go through the same process.

    In the end all of our food supply would cost 6 times more.

    Who do you think will pocket the difference?

    Joseph Ricard

    30 March 2008 at 9:05 am

  66. Just ran into this discussion.
    I am a certified nutritionist with 25 years of experience.
    I have been researching Salba and Chia for several years.
    I know personally most of the primary growers, co-ops, importers and marketers of all forms of Chia.
    First, let me say that all of the current ‘chia’ products are GREAT.
    Second, let me also say that while Salba is ‘committed’ and ‘passionate’ and all of that, it is still white Chia. Black Chia, on the other hand, contains quercitin, the white does not. While the overall nutritional profiles are basically identical, i.e. protein, fiber, fat, etc…the Black Chia seed has an ORAC rating quite a bit higher than the White. 10 points to be exact, which is highly significant. So, first recommendation is to purchase Black Chia if you can. Also, Salba is NOT the only importer/grower/processor of Chia that is doing it ‘right’. Check out http://www.benexia.com. And lastly, don’t forget about Flax. Most of the Chia information out there is making a false claim: that Chia has more Omega 3’s than Flax. WRONG. The content of Omega 3’s in 100 grams of White or Black Chia ranges from 17 to 19%. The content of Omega 3’s in Flax ranges from 23 to 29%. In fact, our last shipment of bulk, organic flax tested at 29.5%. Don’t get me wrong, Chia and Flax are not the same thing. But don’t get it wrong that Chia is ‘better’ than Flax or anything like that. They both have their strengths, they are just different. Also, watch for a new sprouted chia powder product. I have seen some of the testing going on and the ORAC rating of Chia goes up 2.5x when sprouted. That is HUGE. Oh and by the way, sprouted flax is WAY better than milled flax or flax oil as well.

    Zane

    2 April 2008 at 2:20 pm

  67. Hi! I really enjoyed reading you all! What I’m very interested in is cultivating Chia in Canada… I know it’s Zone 9 and all but I started some seed in my house and hope to transplant them in my garden this spring when frost danger is past. Has anyone tried something like that? I need details on cultivation and maturity for timing my culture. We do the same process for tomatoes because they need a longer growing period and I think it might be worth it with such a great plant like Chia! Thank you for your help.

    W

    Wen

    4 April 2008 at 10:32 pm

  68. Wren, visit my website and look at the “Field Tests” tag.

    I have grown chia on Long Island, but it barely reached flowering stage before frost. Flowering in chia is determined by daylength, which limits its area of cultivation to subtropical latitudes. Since you are further north than we are, you are unlikely to be able to harvest seeds. But give it a try anyway.

    Margaret

    7 April 2008 at 8:06 pm

  69. Interesting discussion on white versus black chia, thanks very much, and http://www.benexia.com is a good website because it has some good recipes so people can figure out how to integrate it into their daily diet.

    As for the false claims, the salba site says it has 8 x more omega 3s than salmon, and shows a huge slab in the picture. Beware the hype!

    But anything that gets people away from white rice and white flour and white potatoes has to be good for us!

    Joan

    8 April 2008 at 9:06 am

  70. Thank you Margaret. I’ve already found your site which I thoroughly enjoyed and seeing Chia grow this hight north is very encouraging. I started seeds inside like my tomato plants and we’ll see what comes of that. What are your plans for this years field tests? Do you plan to do the same and try to get a early start on the season… Do they flower with a certain amount if daylight hour or is it a specific number of days? It’s really hard to find anything specific on Chia cultivation. The salba seeds germinate very easily and are vigorous in their growth… Nearly all seeds germinate. Here we start tomatoes around the 10th of april inside and wait until the last danger of freeze are past to put them in the garden. Thanks you for your answer and keep up the nice projects with Chia and other forms of life!

    Wen
    wen.rolland@excite.com

    Wen

    8 April 2008 at 7:50 pm

  71. One website to buy white chia seeds is http://www.purcellmountainfarms.com/Chia%20Seeds.htm

    They have a much better price that at http://www.salbausa.com/ (which is VERY expensive and not worth the added cost)

    Chuck

    10 April 2008 at 9:41 am

  72. Can CHIA be milled into a flour does it effect its properties?
    Same Question for SALBA

    Isaac

    10 April 2008 at 11:13 am

  73. Salba is a trademarked version of chia—i.e., Salba is chia seed. (See title of post.) I don’t have any information about milling, but if the temperature is not high when milled, I don’t see that it would affect the nutritional value.

    LeisureGuy

    10 April 2008 at 12:14 pm

  74. Okay now I am totally confused. I saved an article from Toronto’s Globe & Mail on chia from November. It claims that white chia, called Salba, is the best choice, but I just don’t know whether to believe it since it’s only one study and the study was sponsored by a company that markets the white chia, Salba Nutrional Solutions. In an article in Toronto’s Globe & Mail newspaper, called “There’s more to chia than just growing pets” on Friday Nov 16, 2007, it is reported that Dr. Vladimir Vukasan, Associate Director of the Clinical Nutrition and Risk Factor Modification Centre at St. Michael’s Hospital in Toronto (and lead researcher on a University of Toronto study on Salba and published in shortly after the newspaper article, in the U.S. journal Diabetes Care) found that an analysis of common chia grains show that their nutrional profiles are inconsistent. One could be loaded with vitamins, minerals and omega-3 and the next could show virtually none. He found that Salba, a white chia grown in Peru by Salba Nutrional Solutions, was more consistently nutrient-rich. Now, I would hope that Dr. Vukasan tested enough different-coloured chia seeds from different growers and that, given his post at the hospital, that he is unbiased, but who knows? His study seems to go against other studies I found on the Internet and look who was paying to have his study done.

    Does anyone have anything to add to this?

    Noel

    10 April 2008 at 2:03 pm

  75. If you like white chia in particular, many places sell it. I go with the regular chia, which seems fine. It is, after all, only one food among many that I eat.

    LeisureGuy

    10 April 2008 at 3:41 pm

  76. It’s not that I like white chia. I am just trying to determine which one I should be liking!

    Noel

    10 April 2008 at 3:55 pm

  77. Very informative website. Have been using Salba for nearly a year and am happy with it. I feel more energetic,it suppresses the appetite, and it adds fiber. As I eat low carb this really helps. However, the price is way too high and am looking for a consistently nutrient rich chia that is clean but am not sure what to buy. Am leery of bulk grains having dealt with larvae in the past.

    Barbara

    14 April 2008 at 10:46 am

  78. Links in the post and in the comments provide a variety of choices for vendors. I’ve been quite happy with the one I’ve used. $6 per pound is not bad.

    LeisureGuy

    14 April 2008 at 11:37 am

  79. Don’t have a thing that I could add.. yet.. except to say that I read this entire string tonight and REALLY appreciated each one of the contributions. All who have chimed in have been even and intelligent, and apparently all were seeking to contribute something of value in getting to the truth. A big pat on the back to you all.. and
    Thanks! I hope you keep up the interest, and the great contributions. I’m off to find some good chia for myself and the cat.
    BTW, the coming (in progress now) socio-ecomomic meltdown will require those of us who wish to survive to grow and store our own food. I hope I can grow good chia in middle Georgia and learn the best ways to use/store it.

    I’ll be reading you,
    Bud Tillery
    Columbus, GA

    PS Leisureguy, bring on the book.

    Bud

    21 April 2008 at 11:07 pm

  80. I have been using chia for a few years, and I love it. Salba has just arrived, as have a few other “trademarked” chia varieties.

    Comparing the two, based on their own assays, I cannot justify the price difference. The fact that they are the “only one tested” is a farce.Neither the Aztecs nor Cirildo Chacarito* tested their chia, and its effects were still excellent. (Google him, he ran a desert marathon race against Nike elite athletes and won by a long shot. Great story, not so good for the advertiser!)

    I pay $6 a lb for my chia, and will not EVER again pay $24.95 for a lb of Salba. My body could not tell the difference in a 30 day trial. My checkbook can.

    I do not doubt all of the “believers” in this product, but they are essentially all in the same boat as the magic-bullet-of-the-month club.
    There is a lot of multi-level /networking profit to go around on a grain with a long shelf life that can be marked up over 400 percent. Selling this product was attractive to me, until I did my own comparison, and found no benefit worth 400%.

    I do however hope that someone makes it a legal requirement that they call it “Salba{TM} brand of chia seeds. They way their marketing is going, there will be little knowledge of chia – it will be replaced by the trade name Salba.
    Similar to the way I used “Google” in paragraphs above- instead of “do an internet search”

    PS. Regarding pesticides and chia, the chia plant has its own volatile components in its leaves, and pests do not like them at all.

    JayT

    22 April 2008 at 7:24 pm

  81. I just found chia(mixed black and white seeds) at Costco for much less than Salba.I compared the nutritional facts and they were very close.I am switching to ChiaNutra by webber naturals since it is more economical-I hope Costco continues to carry it.

    Lori

    30 April 2008 at 10:58 am

  82. I had been a long time Salba user and decided that I would try the generic chia after reading so many interesting points of view on posts like this one.

    I bought some ChiaNutra white chia and I was horrified when I found that there were small red beetles and larvae in the seeds, and they were very apparent. After several calls I found out that this chia was grown in Mexico and Australia and there was an infestation in their storage facilities. I reported the incident and needless to say, I will be happy to spend more for a product like Salba that ultimately cares about quality control and cleanliness.

    I understand now why generic chia is so much cheaper and it seems to me that with nutritional products you really do get what you pay for.

    Thanks

    Ernest Holtsoi

    19 May 2008 at 10:51 pm

  83. Ernest, I think your experience was an anomaly. I hope you reported the problem to the vendor from whom you got the chia. I assume you would immediately get a full refund. It’s an unusual problem, obviously, otherwise generic chia would not find many buyers. I’ve ordered generic chia several times (at $9/lb) with no such problem. I suggest you give it another try, using a different vendor.

    LeisureGuy

    20 May 2008 at 7:02 am

  84. So “salba” is nothing but a patented salvia hispanica seed? In that case, those who care about health and the environment should BOYCOTT it! If you give your money to corporations that go around patenting wild seed varieties, you might as well start investing in MONSANTO, because the companies will continue to engage in such activity as long as people pay for it.
    As Ray Karczewski says, BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT!

    jc

    20 May 2008 at 10:43 pm

  85. Salba is not a wild seed variety.

    Anonymous

    21 May 2008 at 5:29 am

  86. Leisure Guy~

    Very good little blog got goin’ on here – kudos 2 all posters! LG u mentioned buying chia for 6/lb many times then on 20May blog say 9…hmmm curious as to where you buy your generic chia and has price risen 50% as of late?? Another poster said 4.99/lb and that site is now 6.99/lb(good lookin site tho).

    Thanks and everyone monitor their blood sugar -as it is your greatest long term threat 2 health(outside of high BP of course ;).

    ~bp~

    btw black chia seeds if indeed they have quercetin would be the best choice~be well.

    BP

    23 May 2008 at 8:44 am

  87. Hi, BP. The $9/lb was a typo. I actually ordered it for $9/package, and the package was 1.5 lbs — $6/lb. But I notice now that the same site sells the 1.5 lb package for $20 — I imagine the demand has led to higher pricing.

    LeisureGuy

    23 May 2008 at 8:49 am

  88. Yes, the price of chia seems to be rising fast. I’m not sure why.

    A comment for jc: You might like to know that the Salba Company differs from the multi-billion dollar corporations like Monsanto, Cargill, etc. It’s basically just a couple of people who have invested their life savings. They have bred what they consider to be a superior seed (though they have not yet proven that it’s superior). They have invested their own money to fund important medical research. They have created a system of product quality control and have trademarked a brand name in order to protect their investment. I’m sure they haven’t made very much money, yet. These are not the bad guys. Please don’t BOYCOTT Salba, but rather, make your decision as best you can based upon whatever is important to you.

    In my opinion, Salba is better than chia, but it’s not 4 times better. Maybe it’s 20% better. It really shouldn’t cost 4x as much!!

    But the market will change. I predict that within the next year, either the price of Salba will come down, or the price of chia will rise until the difference in their price reflects the difference in their quality.

    As chia consumers, we are in a position to exert some power. The future of the chia market will be influenced by our purchasing decisions today. So choose thoughtfully and wisely.

    And please come visit my website for a growing and annotated list of chia suppliers. (Mostly ad free.)

    Margaret

    2 June 2008 at 5:45 pm

  89. I suffer from Celiac disease, fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis. Oh, and I’m an A+ blood type. I’ve been vegetarian for a little over 12 years but due to the Celiac have eliminated all wheat products including corn and rice as well due to irritants over the past six months. Recently, I eliminated all dairy, eggs, chicken and fish. Thus I am completely vegan.

    Reading through this entire site, I see there is quite a controversy over Salba vs Chia seeds and Price. Personally, while price is important to everyone including me, price is not the primary factor especially when food choices are so limited as is in my case. I resort to such nutritional foods like Salba, Nutritional Yeast, and Vega products because I need vegetable sources of protein, vitamins and minerals. I don’t like taking all sorts of supplements and seek to find the “Perfect Diet Blend” compared to the “Perfect Whole Food”.

    It is my hope that while using various nutritional food sources I will receive all the vital nutrients my body needs to operate optimally. Of course price will always be a factor, when hasn’t it been? Our ever changing economy only serves to further promote gouging and overpricing of even the most essential staples. Salba is considered a luxury food item even though it’s not. And whenever the food item of the month classifies as “luxury” of course there is going to be a demanding price for it. Do you really think Audi is going to price their cars the same as Hyundai? It’s not about the food, per se, but the prestige of the product based on people’s beliefs.

    It seems no one on this site refutes the health benefits of either chia or Salba, although there has been reference to false or misleading claims of value legitimacy. Maybe you don’t eat a pound of broccoli in a day. Perhaps most people don’t. But do we eat a variety of food in a day that might perhaps equate to the equivalent of magnesium found in a pound of broccoli? I don’t know.

    I don’t know if Salba is a “Perfect Food” or not. However, I do know that when I combine Salba with other nutritional foods I eat, I am comforted by the fact that I have upped certain nutritional values without having to take supplements.

    With the exception of deep breathing and at home yoga and meditation, peace of mind comes with a price. Salba has provided a price tag that consumers have proven “willing” to pay. And for those who are not so willing, there is always chia. This is neither a good thing or a bad thing. It’s just a thing. Besides, isn’t it great to have choices! Without choices I could very well be violently ill, or worse, dead. Personally, the price of Salba (and the other aforementioned products) is worth the peace of mind for me.

    Thanks for indulging in my rant:-)

    Judith

    Judith

    3 June 2008 at 11:21 am

  90. I don’t think your analogy of car brands quite works. The issue with luxury products is for others to know that you bought them—car brands are evident, and of course there are many fashion products with a highly visible designer logo so that others can see what you bought. Foods are consumed in private, on the whole, and who’s to know the difference? I could readily claim to be eating Salba while actually saving some money by going for generic chia.

    But your point is well taken: some people definitely seem pleased to have the choice to buy Salba, and what’s the harm? It’s a choice. Others go for the generic chia. We get to choose. I personally am unconvinced that Salba has greater nutritional value than generic chia, but I quite understand that others would rather be safe than sorry and can readily afford Salba.

    LeisureGuy

    3 June 2008 at 11:31 am

  91. Salba is certified gluten free and nut free, which is important for those with allergies.

    Margaret

    3 June 2008 at 8:20 pm

  92. You can find a growing and annotated list of chia seed suppliers on my website. One that I happen to like right now is a family-owned company in New Jersey called “Nuts Online.”

    Margaret

    5 June 2008 at 4:49 pm

  93. Thanks for this interesting forum…

    Debate is fine… But please do not say anything derogatory about Dr. Coates. All of us owe him an incredible debt of gratitude.

    Chia as a whole, whether chia seeds/Salba/The Signature Grain/etc are, to put it mildly, in their infancy stages in getting out to the public on a broader scale. It does not – repeat – does not help when people start slinging mud. Salba is a fine product. The Signature Grain is not even on the market as of yet. Both will do wonderful things for mankind. Chia seeds are great too…

    Please, for the benefit of all of us do NOT start name calling. It might make sense for all of us not to turn people off as they are just learning about this. Here’s to continuing dialogue in a civil manner with the primary focus being on helping people.

    Sincerely,
    rich

    rich

    8 June 2008 at 1:26 pm

  94. I agree, Rich. I don’t want this blog used to launch attacks. Posts on the general subject of chia seed are welcome, posts on vendors are not.

    LeisureGuy

    8 June 2008 at 8:31 pm

  95. I have never used chia seed before,but i know of many others that have helped me.

    Richmond

    10 June 2008 at 8:08 am

  96. I have a question that neither the sellers of Salba nor one seller of Chia seeds can answer: I am on a coumadin for various heart problems (i.e. warfarin a “blood thinner”) and neither group can advise me whether or not salvia hispanica is contraindicated for me (I think it is). What would you advise, except “ask the doctor”………..

    Laurie Mottle

    12 June 2008 at 1:43 pm

  97. @ Laurie Mottle: I think you’d be much better off getting advice from a professional nutritionist than from the general public. And that’s my advice.

    LeisureGuy

    12 June 2008 at 1:50 pm

  98. Salvia hispanica L is a natural blood thinner. You should absolutely consult your Dr as the medication you are taking also thins blood. Good advice Leisure dude.

    Seriously

    12 June 2008 at 4:54 pm

  99. Dear Leisure Guy…

    I saw your update but just wanted to let you know that Source Salba is the home of Salba for Canada, but in the U.S. you may want to let your readers know that the latest information could be found at http://www.salba.com

    Thank you very much for your time and for the recognition that Salba put chian on the U.S. map!

    Ernest!

    Ernest Holtsoi

    17 June 2008 at 8:13 pm

  100. Excellent information. I have been eating Salba for a few months now and really do notice an improvement in how I have been feeling (both mentally and physically) and looking. I love it but unfortunately I am also finding it expensive and will definitely consider Chia seeds after all of your comments. I wasn’t aware that there was a choice. I understood Salba to be grown from the white Chia seeds and that it was this process that gave the final product (Salba) the nutritional value. In the meantime for those that mentioned that they want some testimonials on Salba, check out http://www.sourcesalba.com. They have a contest going on right now and some of the entries are very informative and sincere. I have entered a poem called A Toast To Salba by Lesley M. and would appreciate votes from anyone who is so inclined. Thanks again for all of this great information.

    LM

    19 June 2008 at 5:50 pm

  101. I bought 14 lbs from Amazon.com for 98 dollars SHIPPED.
    This is no scam, this stuff reaaly is a miracle food.I have never felt better!

    jamie tucker

    25 June 2008 at 7:00 pm

  102. $7/lb is a good price. And here it is for $32 for 5 lbs = $6.40/lb (though you do have to pay shipping—$8 for shipping, which brings total price to $8/lb).

    Here’s the 14 lbs/$98 and free shipping.

    LeisureGuy

    25 June 2008 at 7:08 pm

  103. What a good blog!

    It seems to me that salba can make claims, but might be
    only structure/function claims , …… I have not seen any
    proved qualified health claims for salba yet (maybe i am wrong).
    In this case, any health ingredient have chance to label structure/function
    claims, so what makes salba stands out?

    In canada, there are only 5 approved health claims, and about
    10 approved function/structure claims , Salba got no chance
    to claim anything in Canada.

    So from industry point of view, neither nutrition improvement or
    market benefits do come from salba, unfortunately, at least for
    canadian food industires.

    YU

    26 June 2008 at 7:04 am

  104. Basically, what I am looking for in the salba is a large increase in my Magnesium intake and more protein. Will the chia seeds do the same and if so, do I need to get black seeds, or will the white ones do just as well?

    Kevkel

    26 June 2008 at 10:48 am

  105. I don’t know that there’s much nutritional difference between white and black salba chia. Foods high in magnesium per weight include: rice bran, wheat bran, pumpkin seed, flax seed, cocoa powder, cumin, and tahini. (Source: Fitday program—see Fitday.com.) There are many sources of protein. Chia seed is one, but also look at beans (except for soybeans an incomplete protein but easily completed with dairy, corn, and the like).

    LeisureGuy

    26 June 2008 at 11:33 am

  106. There is no such thing as black Salba. Salba is white.

    Anonymous

    26 June 2008 at 6:56 pm

  107. Good point. Comment corrected. Thanks.

    LeisureGuy

    26 June 2008 at 6:59 pm

  108. As soon as I get any boxed or bagged floured products, spices or grains, I put them into the freezer for about four days to kill all the eggs that mostly all things carry. :)

    I never have a problem when the humid heat hits, since I am w/o AC, except a window one in a couple of rooms.

    Kandy

    6 July 2008 at 7:06 pm

  109. That would also include pastas and dehydrated foods.

    Kandy

    6 July 2008 at 7:08 pm

  110. Hi, I just found out about chia seeds and have some questions about it. I’ve never tried it before, but I am thinking about buying some online. I read that people eat just the seeds themselves, or hydrate them and make chia gels. However, can the chia seeds be grown into the chia plants? Is there a difference in nutrient value if you eat him in seed, gel, or plant form?

    Thanks

    sam

    10 July 2008 at 11:04 pm

  111. Seeds in general have higher nutrition density than the plants that produce them. Chia seeds do indeed produce chia plants: that’s the basis of the chia pet products (small terracotta figurines with grooves for the seeds that subsequently sprout). The seeds do produce a gel when mixed with water—the nutritional value is the same as you’d get by eating the seeds directly. I personally mix the seeds into my hot cereal.

    LeisureGuy

    11 July 2008 at 5:55 am

  112. Here are links to a two-part interview between Dr. Fred Liers and Dr. Wayne Coates, who perhaps is the world’s foremost authority on chia seeds. Dr. Coates reveals in Part 2 that nearly all chia seeds (black or white, including Salba) grown commercially derive from the SAME source, i.e., the seeds that he and Ricardo Ayerza planted back early 1990s! This is a must-read interview:

    Part 1: http://www.naturalnews.com/022780.html

    Part 2: http://www.naturalnews.com/023068.html

    Read, learn, and enjoy!

    Melissa

    16 July 2008 at 8:26 pm

  113. I’m a cancer patient and have taken regular chia seed (ground & made into gel) for the last 2 & 1/2 years. I feel it’s made a big difference in my energy & health. Now I’ve started taking Moringa Tree powder, but no matter how I take it, it gives me painful gas. It is supposed to have no side effects (all the sites say this). Do you know anything about Moringa? I’m about to give up on it.

    Muriel

    18 July 2008 at 2:05 pm

  114. Just had to reorder chia seed. Arizona Chia is now Chia Seed and Oil and the prices have gone up substantially. I did find a good price from this supplier and ordered 5 of the 1-lb. bags.

    LeisureGuy

    22 July 2008 at 8:18 am

  115. It appears the first comment is just copied and pasted from from Salba’s main website. Saying someone works for a company when they’ve posted what is readily available seems little silly. Not to mention that the comment is almost a year old.

    Salba has shown to be nutritionally consistent crop after crop that is not found in other varieties of chia . . . even other varieties of white chia. So the growers at Salba must be doing something right if they can continue to turn out a product that is consistent year after year.

    Anonymous

    26 July 2008 at 11:06 am

  116. BloodyKnuckles: What organization are you with? Who is the “we” that has done the analysis and is “showing a little higher antioxidant content in black compared to the white.”

    I’d like access to your studies, if possible. Thanks!

    Margaret

    27 July 2008 at 7:11 pm

  117. Hey All,

    I’ve read from 15, August through 27, July and found this blog to be very informative. It answered several of my chia related questions. Thank you!
    One question that I have not been able to find much information on is: whether the nutritional content of the chia seed is altered/damaged with a) grinding it into a “flour” or b) heating (i.e baking, using it in hot soups). Any info would be great.
    -Bek
    p.s. I appreciate the effort to keep this discussion free from attack/negativity

    Bek

    28 July 2008 at 11:28 pm

  118. Here are my (nonauthoritative) views: Making a flour is fine if you use it quickly. It could be that in the flour form, without protection of the seedcase, oxidation would occur. It could be slowed by refrigerating the flour.

    I doubt that heating the chia would be harmful.

    LeisureGuy

    29 July 2008 at 8:42 am

  119. Very interesting website! Thanks for all the great info and comments.

    I’ve been using chia seeds from iherb.com and am very satisfied with their product. They sell the higher priced salba as well. I see no reason to spend the extra money.

    I include the chia seeds in a varied and very healthy diet so can’t say I feel different, but I can see the fiber when I make my smoothies. And I trust that it is a healthy product. I store all my nuts, seeds, and grains in the refrigerator or freezer so have never had a problem with “unwanted pests” in my food. I haven’t sprouted them, but will soon. Sprouts are a super nutritious food. G

    rawginny

    30 July 2008 at 9:29 am

  120. Speaking of sprouts, this post on the benefits of soaking brown rice overnight before cooking is interesting.

    LeisureGuy

    30 July 2008 at 9:32 am

  121. This is a very interesting blog comparing Salba and chia seeds. I have been a consumer of Salba for some time. I must admit that I have spent hundreds of dollars purchasing Salba seeds and find it to be very nutritious. The question I have for Margaret is that I have made several requests at attempting to purchase bulk quantities of the Salba but was told I had to be a vendor, why is Salba seed not sold to regular consumers in bulk quantities? The neatly packaged 16oz. jars don’t last very long and am spending upwards $100 for 48 oz. of Salba seeds which only last a short time. I have not as yet tried chia seeds, but as a consumer of Salba seeds I find it to be very nutritional, fibrous and a good source of antioxidants. I do find myself replacing snack foods with Salba seeds. I must say that I have consumed a great amount of Salba seeds and have experienced no side effects.

    malw12

    31 July 2008 at 3:38 pm

  122. Have you tried regular chia seed? It would certainly seem to be worth the experiment.

    LeisureGuy

    31 July 2008 at 4:22 pm

  123. malw12:

    My local Wild By Nature natural grocery offers a 10% discount if you buy an entire case of anything. They don’t carry chia or Salba, however.

    In general, the manufacturing companies are not set up to sell by the case. In fact, in order for me to order SalbaSmart Corn Chips, I would have to place a regular $500 order with the large warehouse that supplies health foods to the whole Northeast.

    I agree with LeisureGuy that you might want to try regular chia seed. Or you might want to submit your request directly to Source Salba. They seem to respond to customer requests, and I’m sure you’re not the first person who has this need.

    Margaret

    31 July 2008 at 7:41 pm

  124. I’m surprised to see someone advised to buy chia especially when Salba has obviously been helping. After I became interested in chia, I looked into this quite a lot and Salba has been clinically tested on humans and that gives me peace of mind. For that I don’t mind paying a bit more. Some agricultural practices, such as in Mexico and Haiti, are questionable to say the least. All in all, it was enough to convince me to make the switch to Salba, permanently.

    Carlton

    31 July 2008 at 10:32 pm

  125. LeisureGuy, I have not tried chia, but do intend to make the comparison, but taste and costs.

    Margaret, on the other hand one can see why the costs is a major factor in whether to purchase Salba or chia, when the alternative source is available. As stated earlier in my post, a response from the distributor was that I had to be a vendor which is discouraging for me as a huge consumer of Salba seeds and gives the impression that the bottom line is profit and perhaps the alternative source, chia, may prove to be costs effective.

    malw12

    1 August 2008 at 5:30 am

  126. Carlton, an experiment is always worthwhile. An experiment is not a permanent commitment, but trying the alternative, especially given costs, is wise. A non-food example: for reasons of cost, I tried switching my car from the middle grade of gasoline (which I had always used, thinking it was better) to regular grade. It works fine, and I get the same mileage.

    LeisureGuy

    1 August 2008 at 7:54 am

  127. (in reference to Carlton’s statement on feeling safe given clinical testing of Salba on humans)….

    A clarification of my previous post specifically notes that the head researcher for Salba, Dr. Vladimir Vuksan, originally completed research using chia seeds and NOT specifically Salba.

    It was a much later date that he adopted Salba seeds into a clinical study.

    Dr. Mommy

    3 August 2008 at 3:50 pm

  128. Salba is Chia, a white variety that originated, like all chia, in Mexico. The research, where ever you find it and there are other credible sources besides Salba, is addressing Salvia Hispanica L. and their unique beneficial properties. I have personally taken chia since 1969 and started a food development co. using chia in 1989, before any of the voices your listening to out there. Take the seed for your health, that is what you need to know first of all. You will realize the benefits encapsulated in these extraordinary little seeds in a very short period of time. They are limitless in there culinary applications and if you need information about that I have been in food development using chia since 1969, and as a business since 1989 and I can help you to eliminate a lot of trial and error.

    The concerns with this industry is, it is new, with tremendous potential because it works effectively in support of health and wellness and so, exploited by the industry sharks. Look for quality because 3rd world country growers, who are jumping is without proper cleaning and food quality protocols in place, are selling their seeds on the open market as well and you can end up buying poor quality, in terms of purity. This comes with some risk, especially if you eat them raw, which most of us buying seed do.

    If you are confused as to where to buy seeds; how to use them; how to incorporate them in foods etc. please contact me and I will be happy to point you in the right direction. I have a food company Amber Marketing Inc DBA Marquis-Nutra Foods, and sell value added chia products because I believe this is where I can reach and help more people. Most people would rather buy products with chia without having the hassle of preparing the seeds. A simple article to read, with a broad stroke over view on chia’s benefits, with some valuable information on how to use them, is “Chia Seed, The Ancient Food of the Future”,(by Wm. Anderson), which I wrote in the 90’s, and it offers important information everyone can understand.

    I hope to hear from you, Healthy Regards… 949.444.8282

    Wm Anderson

    7 August 2008 at 12:56 pm

  129. BTW, this post might be of interest. It indicates that the method of growing a food crop doesn’t alter the nutritional content of the crop: you may get a smaller crop, but the nutritional value of what you get seems constant. As I point out in the post, the reason people want organic is not because the food has more nutritional value, it’s in order to avoid pesticide and herbicide residues, which some people don’t want to eat.

    The key test needed to resolve the Salba vs. generic controversy is not to study the effects of Salba vs. no chia intake at all, but to study the effects of Salba vs. generic chia in the diet. That’s the study that Salba should fund.

    LeisureGuy

    7 August 2008 at 1:08 pm

  130. I’m in Peru and when asked about Salba and Chia people here only laugh at you. The roads by the way are fine.

    jIM KELLEY

    12 August 2008 at 5:01 am

  131. I would love a link to the analyses.

    LeisureGuy

    12 August 2008 at 7:20 am

  132. Can’t get enough of the stuff, use it in EVERYTHING !

    A salad wouldn’t be a salad without it.

    Jasmine Beaupre

    12 August 2008 at 8:56 am

  133. No wonder the Aztecs used it as currency, it’s FANTASTIC ! I used it on everything.

    Jasmine Beaupre

    12 August 2008 at 9:01 am

  134. Chia does vary in the nutrtional content, not so much by growing region but by the quality of the seeds. Not all the seeds are the same quality and you need to ask for the test results from your supplier. Normally the less expensive the seeds the poorer quality. You need to ensure that the seeds you purchase contain a min. of 60% omega-3. Some of the seeds we have seen are not for human use yet are in the health stores. Wayne Coates has warned about this for at least a year (prior to his selling his business and getting back into research).

    gloria

    12 August 2008 at 1:49 pm

  135. Thank you, LeisureGuy, for this post on Salba/chia. These comments have been very interesting, informative and thought-provoking. I have not included chia in my diet and have only stumbled upon the Salvia/chia debate in these postings today.

    Thank you also for pointing out the article that compares the nutrient content in organically versus non-organically grown foods. Besides avoiding the known and unknown dangers to our bodies and the environment from the use of non-natural fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides, some of us also make the organic choice because it is a more natural way to interact with the natural world.

    However, except for those of us with known health issues, I question our chasing after remotely grown and relatively expensive foods with the expectation that this will improve the quality of our lives. For those who notice a dramatic improvement, this may be working for you. But if we add up all of the (perceived) benefits of adding to our diets extra vitamin and mineral supplements, wheat bran, wheat germ, oat bran, spirulina, probiotics, omega-3. omega-6, chia, etc. are we really better off than we would be with an informed, nutritionally balanced (but not “perfect”) diet? Moreover, what of personal resources, both our finances and our energy, that we put into this concern?

    Sima

    Sima Parama

    16 August 2008 at 10:41 am

  136. Do you know why my post was removed? I had completed a literature and patent search which showed the Salba head researcher is the same person who applied for the Salba patent (which by the way, is pending and not approved yet). This same gentleman completed research on generic chia and he registered for patent on the generic chia (which you can’t ultimately do) long before Salba was even spoken of … etc. etc. The previous post was longer and more detailed, sorry readers – I don’t have the energy to re-write only to have the post removed again.

    Dr. Mommy

    3 September 2008 at 8:32 pm

  137. I’ve removed contentious posts.

    LeisureGuy

    4 September 2008 at 10:11 am

  138. A few weeks ago, I heard about Chia seeds (initially as Salba). I did an iGoogle search for factual information to learn more about these seeds. On any research, I rarely pay attention to Blogs. However, your blog on Chia seeds was one of the search results, and it looked intriguing. So, I saved it along with several other sites on Chia/Salba. I sat down one night and read through ALL of the entries, here, on this blog.

    Than You for providing this. I found it very helpful, and at the very least informative. I had ordered a 12 oz container of Salba from SmartBomb, one of the leat expensive Salba offerings; however, I couldn’t continue at their prices.

    Thanks to your site, I ordered three one pound bags of Chia from NutsOnLIne! Thanks. (And ended up giving one bag to a friend as a new apartment warming gift, since I found out she can not eat dairy nor anything wheat, along with links to using Chia recipes as Egg or Flour substitute from Eat This! link – also found here.)

    Now I am not writing just to say thanks, though worthwhile. I have a question. I watch my calories, and Protein, Carb, Fat intake – sticking to Mono-sat fats and fruits/vegetables, raw when possible for Carbs and enzymes.

    BUT, adding 2 TBL of Chia to my normal breakfasts, increases my calorie intake by about 127 calories, and lunch by ~64 calories with 1 TBL. I was wondering, if all Carbs in Chia seeds are actually insoluble fiber, and Protein is only 4 g:

    1.) What is actual Calories I am receiving? Should I only count the calories from protein and fat of Chia seeds?

    2.) Most Protein in grains of any kind is considered unusable and therefore not counted, unless it is a Soy protein (such as in Kashi, Go Lean cereals). Is the protein of Chia seeds useable as protein?

    John D. PIlla

    8 September 2008 at 10:20 am

  139. Many thanks for your kind comments.

    In answer to your first question, do a search on “chia” on the USDA Nutrient Database: enter “chia” as the search term, select the one option offered and submit, and then choose whether you want the analysis on metric or the weird US units we still use.

    I believe that the protein in chia is usable. It is a complete protein. But then I believe that the protein in pulse is usable, even if it must be complemented by dairy or grain.

    Hope this helps.

    LeisureGuy

    8 September 2008 at 10:41 am

  140. Hey.
    There is some really great info on this blog. I am actually living a gluten free lifestyle as well and it is definitely not easy. It seems like everything you want to eat has gluten in it. I love baking, and I have been trying to come up with some gluten free treats for my family. But it is such a hassle to mix the different flours and and then the binder. Its just not fun. Recently, in one of my online research secessions, I found a company Nuchia Foods Corporation, and they have a whole line of chia seed products, but best of all, they have a chia seed flour, that is already premixed, that can be used in most recipes one for one. If you love baking gluten free, this flour is the miracle you have been waiting for. Also the company’s website, has a whole lot of information, historical and nutritional about chia. I found it very helpful and informative. Check it out at http://www.nuchifoods.com.

    Ariadne

    10 September 2008 at 8:30 am

  141. I have wanted to take chia seeds, but a friend told me that when she took them, it constipated her. Is this possible since chia is a fiber? I have never heard anyone else say that it affected them like that.

    Jim

    10 September 2008 at 4:33 pm

  142. It’s certainly possible that chia could have that effect on her, but (as you say) that response is rare. I would say go ahead and try it—unlikely that you would have that problem.

    So far as fiber is concerned, chia does provide good fiber. So if chia is indeed the cause of the constipation, it’s probably something else in the seed.

    LeisureGuy

    10 September 2008 at 6:59 pm

  143. Yes, Chia is an excellent source of fiber. If that is a problem for you, I wouldn’t stress too much as it is a healthy source not excessive (depending on how much you take).

    chiasupreme

    10 September 2008 at 7:19 pm

  144. Thank you for this descution, I just bought 1 lb Chia from eBay. I want to try!!

    ForexBegginer

    10 September 2008 at 9:06 pm

  145. I am not stressed about the fiber, everyone needs that, I just didn’t want it to constipate me. After reading all of the comments, I am going to try it and see what benefits it has for me. Thanks for your responses.

    Jim

    10 September 2008 at 10:39 pm

  146. I was on the point of ordering Salba when I discovered this blog. I had NO idea of the salba/chia connection and read all the comments with great interest. Thanks for saving me from making a huge mistake (and $$$ besides!). All comments were very informative and I feel I can now make an educated choice of what I order and where. Thanks again for a great blog and also appreciate that all entries are well written, clear and above all–non-contentious!

    nancyinwyo

    23 September 2008 at 10:49 am

  147. Believe me, contentious comments were made (on both sides). I delete them.

    LeisureGuy

    23 September 2008 at 10:58 am

  148. 8/1/08 I indicated I would give chia seeds a try and make the comparison. First, I have purchased many, many bottles of Salba seeds. Secondly, I did give chia seeds a try, you will note, I said I did give it a try. As for comparison chia seeds are much smaller than Salba seeds, Salba seeds have a more distinctive flavor, more robust. Chia does not have the plump taste as does Salba. Salba seeds are more gelatinous. This is what I have discovered since purchasing and tasting chia seeds.

    malw12

    23 September 2008 at 4:29 pm

  149. Wow – what a discussion! I actually read all the comments to see what everybody is saying as I am just wrapping up a September is Salba month on Evolving Wellness and wanted to know what else I can learn from people’s experiences with Salba.

    I was first introduced to Salba and knew nothing of Chia last year. As I researched Salba I was thrilled with what I learned. Then as I was researching I came across Chia and my first thought was why pay more for the brand name when the generic may do.

    But as I continued to research there were just too many factors from a scientific perspective that made me sway back to Salba over Chia. Chia is not just a generic version of Salba. There is a small but significant botanical difference in the two varieties.

    Ultimately I think it is a very personal decision and no one should be convincing anyone one way or another.

    The point is if you want a more fortified, more controlled, more tested and pure version of the seed then you should go with Salba.

    If you are comfortable with what Chia provides and where it is from then you should go with Chia. Most important is just to have all the facts from both sides.

    Personally, I think price should be the least of the worries. If you are serious about your health and want high quality products then I don’t think we should be nickel and dimeing it. It is like arguing higher organic produce costs versus regular produce where there is a huge difference if one does their research.

    My advice simply do your research from non-biased sources and go with whatever you are more comfortable with.

    Evita

    27 September 2008 at 7:00 pm

  150. Speaking of facts, you state:

    Chia is not just a generic version of Salba. There is a small but significant botanical difference in the two varieties.

    Could you please specify what the botanical difference between the two varieties is and what significance it has and how it justifies the price difference?

    I do understand the difference between organic and conventional produce: pesticide and herbicide residues on conventional produce and not on organic. I do not understand the difference between Salba chia seed and generic chia seed. They are both chia seed, right?

    LeisureGuy

    28 September 2008 at 8:02 am

  151. Weren’t these differences specified here before until you deleted them?

    Otis Taylor

    28 September 2008 at 10:41 pm

  152. Possibly. I deleted contentious comments, so if the differences were included in such a post, they were deleted. But since Evita has done the research and knows the specific botanical differences, I thought she would post them.

    LeisureGuy

    29 September 2008 at 8:32 am

  153. Cheers to everyone of you that has taken time to find out about your food supply and the health benifits of such wonderful plant life. We have to help ourselves and it is up to us to improve our childrens and our own lives. Our government and laws have allowed company’s and manufactures to poison us and give us disease and cancers. Things are on the market that have no right to be on shelves in any store. Poisons in packaging even. We have to make good choices for ourselves and learn as much as we can to stop the poison that is allowed to contaminate our food and send to early graves AND WE PASS IT TO OUR CHILDREN, they eat what we eat.

    Try optimum organic.com and goodcausewellness.com
    I love the products and have used them for a couple years.
    The Chia is fresh & sold 1.5lbs @ $8.39

    Power to our health.

    langt

    16 October 2008 at 3:07 pm

  154. I do find it ironic that someone who is touting “gourmet shaving” is unwilling to consider the possibility that Salba may be different than run of the mill chia in more ways than just price.

    After all, a razor is a razor.

    Fred

    17 October 2008 at 7:54 am

  155. Not so ironic as all that: I can directly experience the difference between shaving with a multiblade cartridge and canned foam on the one hand and with a safety razor, top quality double-edged blade, and a good shaving cream or shaving soap on the other. My own experience shows me the differences, and based on my experience I know which is superior for me.

    Moreover, I am not at all unwilling to consider the possibility that Salba may be different from generic chia seed. Indeed, I specifically requested that Evita, who apparently knows the botanical differences between Salba and generic chia, to state those differences, but I got no response.

    LeisureGuy

    17 October 2008 at 8:53 am

  156. Well, you’ve been trying chia for a while now, maybe it’s time to give Salba a try. To me, not all of the benefits are necessarily tangible such as the peace of mind knowing that Salba can account for their product from the ground to my hands and the assurance that monitored growing conditions allow for Salba to be nutritionally consistent.

    Fred

    17 October 2008 at 9:10 am

  157. So you know of no botanical differences? I was very curious about that.

    LeisureGuy

    17 October 2008 at 9:11 am

  158. I’m not a botanist so I can’t explain the specific scientific differences between varieties. I do know that the term “chia” refers to over 180 varieties of Salvia hispanica. Salba consists of only 2 specific varieties of Salvia hispanica (Sahi Alba 911 and Sahi Alba 912).

    Fred

    17 October 2008 at 9:30 am

  159. Visually, Salba is a larger seed than chia. And of course white as opposed to the more common black. Salba is also slightly higher in nutrients than chia. When combined with inconsistency, Salba can be considerable higher in nutrients than average chia. The Salba varieties are higher in Omega-3 and protein by 20%-30%. Salba also has a higher water absorption rate. So those would be pretty significant differences between the varieties.

    Fred

    17 October 2008 at 9:35 am

  160. As you know, generic chia is also available in white, if you like it. (Flaxseed also comes in white and brown varieties, and I generally buy the brown: cheaper and also darker colors seem to indicate more phytochemicals, though whether that’s true in this case, I don’t know.)

    Since I obtain protein and omega-3 from a variety of sources, I am not totally dependent on chia for that. (I take 4 grams of wild salmon oil daily, for example, plus eat cold-water fish frequently.) And I’m in no hurry for water to be absorbed by the seed. So in terms of my needs, generic chia seems fine. But at some point I’ll probably give Salba a try.

    LeisureGuy

    17 October 2008 at 9:39 am

  161. Hi guys,

    I AM a botanist. Ph.D. 1982 from UMASS Amherst.

    Here’s my take on the chia/Salba controversy.

    Every species of plant or animal has natural variety within the population. Just as people are different from each other, pine trees are different from each other.

    When plants and animals are grown for human use, it’s best that they be uniform: they should flower at the same time, and be the same size, and taste the same. All of our cultivated plants have been standardized through breeding. Some of them, like wheat, rice, and corn, have been cultivated for millenia, and are quite different from their wild ancestors.

    Most of our crops (corn, rice, green beans, tomatoes, etc.) are also named varieties. Some are hybrids, some are genetically engineered. Companies have bred these crops to have the desired properties, and they own the rights to distribute them.

    Salba/chia is different. It has only recently returned to cultivation. Much of the generic chia plants that are available come from what are really wild plants with a great deal of variability. However, chia growers are beginning to develop standard varieties.

    Salba represents one (or two?) trademarked and carefully managed varieties of chia. Because Salba is a variety that has been bred for specific properties and for uniformity, it can be compared with a named variety of rose (for example, the American Beauty Rose.) In contrast, the generic chia can be compared with wild roses. Wild roses may vary in size, color, timing of flowering, number of petals, etc. etc. etc. The American Beauty Rose is the same all over the world.

    Salba probably has greater nutritional value than generic chia, and it certainly is grown and packaged with greater care. But there are similar claims for other varieties, most recently “Mila the Miracle Seed.” Both these products are substantially more expensive than generic chia. There is another company, NSDI, that places a “seal of approval” on its seeds.

    As Fred says, above, there is value in knowing that your chia seed has been properly grown, harvested, and packaged. I have seen chia that is full of chaff (dried inedible bits of plant parts). I have also purchased seed that’s got evidence of Indian Meal Moth activity. And I wonder who is certifying that the generic seed is free from mold spores, pesticide, heavy metals, what-have-you.

    Anyway, it’s a matter of personal choice. For the small quantity of seed that you are consuming, the nutritional difference between Salba and generic chia is negligible. And if you are comfortable taking the risk that you will get a bad batch of generic chia, then there is no reason to pay for the higher priced product.

    And yes, the dark seed is higher in lignans (phytochemicals.)

    Margaret

    17 October 2008 at 3:41 pm

  162. A useful and enlightening comment. Many thanks.

    LeisureGuy

    17 October 2008 at 4:52 pm

  163. Hi;
    Is this white chia the same as, Salba or is it the same thing.
    Does this seed loose weight,can it be used as a diet, to loose 30 pounds.
    Please list the benefits of taking this seed.
    Thanks Jim

    James M. Kriwiel

    19 October 2008 at 6:30 am

  164. Salba is a white chia seed, but there are also generic chia seeds that are white. Chia seeds have no more direct connection with weight loss than any other food. Generally speaking, if you cut your caloric intake (portion control) and increase your exercise (walking an hour a day, for example), you’ll probably lose weight.

    The benefits of chia are that it offers a good source of fiber, protein, and omega-3 fatty acid. You can find more through searches or using the links in the post above.

    LeisureGuy

    19 October 2008 at 8:39 am

  165. Hi all! Awesome discussion. LeisureGuy, I hope you don’t mind that I directed readers from my blog to your discussion here – Your many readers have given amazing value in their views, research results, etc.

    I have been using chia (purchased from the wonderful family owned company Nuts Online (mentioned earlier in your discussion), and as of today, their White Chia Seed is approx $7.99 per pound. A big savings over $26 – $30 per pound.

    Someone else earlier in your discussion asked if anyone could report any noticeable benefits. For me, it is increased energy. I don’t really enjoy breakfast, so I have incorporated approx 2 tablespoons of ground chia (I currently have the black seed variety) into water – along with some high-quality powdered greens, and I am good to go for several hours. I also feel more like walking or doing other physical exercise. I’m still investigating the effects, but am very encouraged!

    Also, someone else mentioned feeling constipated – We need to remember that chia absorbs a lot of water, and it is important to keep well hydrated!

    I know one person who recommends that we consume 1/2 our body weight in ounces of pure water daily (which would mean if I weigh 160 pounds, 1/2 my weight would be 80 pounds = 80 ounces of water). I would very much like to hear from some of your nutrition experts on this theory!

    Thanks!

    Kathy

    23 October 2008 at 1:56 pm

  166. @ Kathy: It’s fine to redirect people to this discussion.

    80 oz of water is 2.5 qts, which is not that far from my doctor’s recommendation that I drink 2 liters of water a day. In general, though, people should simply drink when they’re thirsty, and when they do, they are best served by drinking water, perhaps with the juice of a lemon or a splash of fruit juice of some type. Avoid “fruit juices” that contain high-fructose corn syrup.

    LeisureGuy

    23 October 2008 at 2:57 pm

  167. Hi LeisureGuy,
    Thanks for the confirmation on that! Interestingly, you mention lemon juice – My husband and I begin every day with the juice of one lemon each, in a tall glass of water. This, before anything else. We feel it kind of gives us a “jump start.”

    Cheers!
    Kath

    Kathy

    29 October 2008 at 1:03 pm

  168. I’ve used Salba for over a year and recommend it for its stated nutritional values and as a good natural vegan omega 3 source. I often soak a couple tablespoons in almond “milk” with some cinnamon for a “pudding” of sorts, put in smoothies, or eat right out of the container.

    A container of it lasts me just over a month – I find it to be great as a low-carb/calorie nutritionally dense meal/snack. I may consider trying bulk chia seed from my co-op.

    I just encountered my first ever problem with Salba – I happened to sniff my Salba container and noticed a mildewy smell. I’m not sure if the lid of the plastic bottle was left open for a bit but I think this mold/mildew caused a brief skin rash outbreak.

    Anyone else have their Salba/chia seed go “bad”? I’ve kept mine in a kitchen cupboard but now am considering refridgerating.

    danny

    30 October 2008 at 10:18 am

  169. Refrigerating nuts, seeds (including whole grains), and some oils (flaxseed oil, for example) is an excellent idea. It prevents not only mold and mildew, but also forestalls rancidity.

    LeisureGuy

    30 October 2008 at 10:25 am

  170. Hola, have just started using Salba, but after reading all this information may switch because of price. I live in Windsor, Ontario, Canada and went to the Bulk Barn to make my purchase. Chia sold for 20.00 dollars a pound and Salba sold for 14.99 for 180 grams. Where can I purchase a trusted Chia for a reasonable price? Thank You.

    sacbe

    2 November 2008 at 7:22 am

  171. I would like to purchase my Chia from Canada and if possible NO shipping fee. Gracais.

    sacbe

    2 November 2008 at 7:25 am

  172. Check out this offer at HealthyChoiceNaturals.
    Its a 1c Chia Offer. Buy Chai Seeds for $20.00 and get Chia Powder for 1c.
    90 Day Guarantee Too, you cant go wrong!

    healthychoicenaturals

    3 November 2008 at 3:44 pm

  173. See a lot of comment here that seems to be all over the board regarding Chia. Also see comments about fish oil and flaxseed. I’d be interested to know why anyone would put fish oil or flaxseed in their body after doing research.

    Many people take flaxseed, in the form of ground seeds or oil, for the omega 3s. The downside with flaxseed is it has to be stored properly because it has a short storage life and can become rancid quickly. Chia can be stored for months without losing its effectiveness or becoming stale. The years of refinement it went through has made it the perfect storage food item. Though people would argue that you get omega 3s and fiber from ground flaxseed, with Chia you get 100% of your daily requirement of these in one 3000 mg serving with the proper ratio of omega 3/6/9, amino acids phytonutrients,and antioxidants. Is there really even a choice!? Also, the FDA has certified some Chia products, such as Mila from Lifemax, as a food. Flaxseed and Fish Oil do NOT even warrant a GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe) classification from the FDA. Flaxseed is not available for purchase for human consumption in several European countries.

    Let’s talk about Omega 3 supplements (fish oils). Obviously, taken alone, supplements are not providing you with the amino acids and other health boosters that Chia does. Also, if you’re thinking taking fish supplements may help you avoid the contamination risks, think again. Not all supplements are regulated in the U.S. and may contain mercury and other toxins. Also, because the oil is concentrated, the supplement can produce an unpleasant body odor. Who wants that? Other side effects can include nausea, belching, bad breath, and sometimes diarrhea. None of these are likely when you get your intake from foods. The beauty of Chia is that it is a raw food. That means you will be absorbing at least 90% of what you ingest as opposed to only approximately 50% if taken in a supplement form!

    hdbear

    11 December 2008 at 6:33 am

  174. This may be biased information, but here is a chart illustrating the key differences between Salba and chia:

    http://www.salba.com/salba_chia.php

    joanne

    11 December 2008 at 9:10 am

  175. @hdbear: Since I eat flaxseed and take fish-oil, I suppose I should reply. Having done my research, I eat whole flaxseed (which I cook with my morning hot cereal), partly for omega-3 and partly for fiber. Flaxseed, unlike ground flaxseed or flax oil, does not turn rancid at room temperatures. If you use ground flaxseed or flax oil, obviously you should refrigerate it and pay attention to its age.

    Fish oil from wild-caught salmon seems to be safe, and that’s what I take. I take two 1000mg capsules with breakfast and two with dinner. No problems at all with digestion or aftertaste. Wild salmon oil is high in omega 3 and presents (at least to me) no digestion problems—no bad body odor, nausea, belching, bad breath, or diarrhea. Indeed, I’ve never suffered these symptoms with taking the fish-oil capsules. I’m wondering whether those symptoms are common or rare.

    Links would be useful when you make statements such as “The beauty of Chia is that it is a raw food. That means you will be absorbing at least 90% of what you ingest as opposed to only approximately 50% if taken in a supplement form!” — can you provide links to substantiate your argument?

    @joanne: the link you provide is to the company that is the source of Salba. Naturally enough, they find Salba to be very good. One point: Salba IS chia, just one variety of the plant. They don’t mention the weight of the jar of Salba, but the nutrition facts label shows that it amounts to 1 lb for $37.90. That’s pretty steep, it seems to me.

    In addition to the fish-oil supplement, I eat a healthful diet, including regular servings of cold-water fish.

    LeisureGuy

    11 December 2008 at 9:27 am

  176. I think salba and flax are pretty much the same but I think taking the oil is not such a good idea. The whole reason for taking the oil would be to increase your Omega 3 levels. Since they both do not contain the good omega 3 DHA and EPA it really only makes sense to eat the seeds ground up to get the benefits of fiber and lignans. Fish oil and krill oil are a much better way to increase the good omega 3 fats mentioned above. Just one man’s opinion.

    Dan the Omega Man

    11 December 2008 at 9:48 am

  177. Leisure Guy, my info came from my cardiologist at The Mayo Clinic, so I tend to believe him. His comment after reviewing the Chia I was taking was that it’s a natural, raw food therefore the body breaks down the food and the intake is about 90% of what is eaten. On the other hand, he indicated that ALL unregulated, over the counter supplements (which is what you’re taking) only provide about 50%. BTW, he was extremely impressed with the Chia and indicated it provided more Omega 3s than anything he had ever seen. His advice to me was to get as many Omega 3s in my body as possible but to be extremely wary of any fish oil supplements.

    More important to me is that Fish Oil and Flaxseed are not given ANY FDA certification. That would make me want to throw anything in my medicine chest or kitchen cabinet away immediately.

    Also, what combination of 3s, 6s and 9s are you taking? Many people have no knowledge of the necessity of ensuring that you have a 4-1 level of 3s and 6s and if that is out of kilter the 9s, if ingested, can have a leveling impact.

    hdbear

    12 December 2008 at 1:57 am

  178. In my experience, medical doctors often have little knowledge of nutrition. It varies, of course. I do think his rule regarding ALL supplements is suspect. I imagine that he has not tested all supplements.

    I have not worked out the exact ratio of omega-3, -6, and -9 that I get in my diet. I do, however, avoid using cooking oils that are high in omega-9 (e.g, oils such as soybean, safflower, sunflower, corn, and the like). I use olive oil in cooking, eat a diet high in cold-water fish, eat beef sparingly, and eat a good amount of fruits and vegetables. I believe that my fat ratios are fine.

    Most of the foods I eat have no FDA certification, BTW. And the FDA,if you follow politics, is currently doing a very bad job indeed.

    LeisureGuy

    12 December 2008 at 8:01 am

  179. So……let me get this right. You have no confidence in a highly regarded doctor at The Mayo Clinic as it relates to nutrition and while the FDA is definitely political at the top, you have no confidence in them either. Therefore, YOU are the one who will make decisions for yourself that are counter to most prevailing literature that can be researched?

    What about the fact that flaxseed and/or flaxseed oil being illegal for human consumption in several European countries. Please opine on that.

    hdbear

    12 December 2008 at 12:25 pm

  180. I don’t know the doctor at the Mayo Clinic—you never gave his name, and the information that he is “highly regarded” (by whom?) is new. The point is, I don’t know how much nutritional knowledge that doctor has. For food and nutrition issues, I tend to rely more on nutritionists and dietitians, who after all study the topic at hand. OTOH, if I am running a fever or have a broken bone or some weird sore, I talk to a doctor, not a nutritionist or dietitian.

    Apparently you are unaware that the FDA is in a terrible state. Haven’t you noticed the great number of food recalls? The FDA has been called a “broken agency,” not only politicized but also understaffed and underfunded for its mission. Do some Googling and you’ll learn about FDA’s current problems.

    I didn’t know that flaxseed was illegal for human consumption in some European countries. Which ones, do you know? Flaxseed is regularly used in foods in the US (some breads, crackers, cereals, and the like), plus it is sold as a food in stores. Why is it illegal in the (yet-to-be-named) countries?

    LeisureGuy

    12 December 2008 at 12:45 pm

  181. Thought you would be interested in this short omega-3 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIgNpsbvcVM

    susan allport

    13 December 2008 at 12:59 pm

  182. FYI, Susan Allport WROTE THE BOOK on Omega-3s.

    Check her website!! We are lucky to have her comments here!!

    Margaret

    13 December 2008 at 3:59 pm

  183. I live in Costa Rica and am dabbling with growing Salba. I planted some of the Canadian registered Salba last year. The flowers were all white. It grew great but I botched the harvesting and most of my seed went to the ground. I planted more this year from my own seed with much more success. At the same time I planted some “Salba” distributed by Core Naturals and Salbausa. Planted in exact circumstance the plants are considerably less hardy and the flowers are totally purple. Can anyone explain?

    David Roberts

    2 January 2009 at 6:09 pm

  184. Really, only one person knows much about growing chia seeds and the various strains of chia. Dr. Wayne Coates conducted research and has written about his results over the last 18 years. Much of this is available in scientific journals. Dr. Coates now works for LifeMax Corporation (Mila the Miracle Seed) and has been reluctant to provide advice to those interested in growing their own chia.

    Around the world, there are lots of other gardeners who, like you, are trying to grow chia seeds. I think it would benefit everyone if there were an exchange of information. If you contact me via my website, I’ll put you in touch with some folks share this interest.

    Margaret

    3 January 2009 at 3:01 pm

  185. David, since Salba is grown under strictly controlled conditions it is not surprising that you would achieve much different results from one year to the next. One would assume that there is more to it than simply planting seeds into the ground in Costa Rica and expecting a replica of the plant grown in Peru. I doubt that the good people at Salba would want their competitors to be able to grow their “own” white version of “chia” that easily.

    Otis Taylor

    10 January 2009 at 10:52 pm

  186. Will ground Chia have the same water absorption as whole seeds? Thoughts?

    Brad

    13 January 2009 at 7:52 am

  187. re. Margaret,
    I’m a gardener, grew chia (Salba) last year here in the Himalayas, had all white flowers except one plant (blue) & to find your website, do I have to search through this whole site? I’d like to exchange info.

    Jack

    19 January 2009 at 11:18 am

  188. After recently being introduced to MILA, I am seeking information on the difference between Lifemax MILA at $50/lb and Chia at $6.95/lb and now Salba at $19/lb. They all seem to be the same seed to me. Leisure Guy, can you, or anyone else, provide some insight to a newbie? I’m interested in the potential benefits of the seed, but really confused as to the differences (other than marketing ploys) of MILA, Chia and Salba. My quest for clarification brought me to this site, I hope you can help.

    Louann

    19 January 2009 at 6:23 pm

  189. Louann, why don’t you take a moment and visit each website yourself. You have written intelligently and you will be able to discern on your own who is doing the most for the industry. You don’t need to ask anyone their opinion as the information you seek can be accessed easily. I can assure you – it will be most interesting and enlightening.

    Some websites to visit are the following:

    http://www.chiafarms.com
    http://www.lifemax.net
    http://www.anutra.com
    http://www.chia-only.com
    http://www.omega-3chia.com
    http://www.nuchia.com
    http://www.salbausa.com
    http://www.salba.com

    Otis Taylor

    19 January 2009 at 10:27 pm

  190. Jack, If you click on my name, above, it will take you to my website: http://www.chiativity.org In the sidebar there is a link to contact me.

    Right now, I have a list of about 6 growers around the world. We can set up a BBS and see how we do.

    BTW, the flower color is probably related to seed color through simple Mendelian genetics (which we all learned in high school, remember?)

    Looking forward to hearing from you!

    Margaret

    20 January 2009 at 8:21 pm

  191. Thank you, Otis for the links. Most of them I had already visited, two of them were identical sites and one of them did not work. In any event, I appreciate your response and willingness to assist me. Unfortunately, I do not feel like any of the websites gave me the answer I was looking for. And honestly, I really don’t care which supplier is “doing the most for the industry.” I am looking for some validation. It seems that perhaps the difference between these companies is where they grow or obtain their seed and how it is processed. Other than that, it all seems to be the same to me, aside from whatever marketing twist is applied. I do wonder about the importance these growers/suppliers put on consistency of growth location and maturity time. Did the Aztecs apply such standards? Does it make the product of today MORE beneficial or just more marketable?

    Louann

    21 January 2009 at 5:15 am

  192. Louann, when I said “most for the industry” it was meant as a way to state just which of these companies are in fact making valid claims and which are not. An intelligent person will be able to easily decipher this. Who is doing continuing research? Why did Dr. Oz who was touting chia on Oprah just a few short months, last week on her show declare flax his preferred choice for omega-3? I believe it was because he realized that the chia industry in whole is one that has not performed the research needed to back their claims. In my estimation there is only one company that has done and continues to do their due diligence when making claims based on clinical trials.

    Otis Taylor

    21 January 2009 at 10:01 pm

  193. Margaret thinks Dr. Wayne Coates is the only person who knows much about growing chia seeds and the various strains of chia. She says Dr. Coates now works for LifeMax Corporation (Mila the Miracle Seed). She just happens to be a distributor for Life Max. No Margaret I’m not interested to pay a series of distributors in a multi-level marketing pyrimid scheme for some marketing lingo they have bought into. Perhaps if she did the math she would find the majority of the cost of their “Miracle Seed” goes to pay the layers of marketers and only a small amount actually gets to the producer.

    Otis Taylor thinks the genetics of the seeds change with the Country where they are grown. The good people at Salba have no control over what the buyer does with the seeds once they are sold and they cannot implant “change of flower color by Country grown” genes. Yes, Otis you can expect the exact genetic replica from a seed from Peru when grown in Costa Rica or the Himalayas for that matter.

    Margaret – the flower color is not related to the seed color.

    Louann, good questions!!!

    As far as “controlled conditions” in Peru; here is an exerpt and website reference. How “organic” does this sound to you?

    The chia seed is sown mechanically at a seeding rate of 3 to 5 kg/hectare. The seed is not treated chemically in any way prior to sowing, but a herbicide Trifluralin [2,6-dinitro-N, N- dipropyl 4-(trifluoromethyl) benzeamine; α, α, α-trifluor-2,6-dinitro-N N-dipropyl-p-toluidine] may be applied to the ground prior to sowing at a rate of 2 litres/hectare. No insecticide is applied. At sowing, the fertilizer consisting of diammonium phosphate is applied mechanically, localised in rows. Between 30 and 45 days following sowing, 150 kg/hectare of urea is applied, also mechanically and localised in rows. The crop is allowed to ripen naturally. However, should there be a requirement to speed up the ripening process; paraquat is used at a rate of 1 litre/hectare. … A multi-residue screen for pesticide and herbicide residues (altogether >100) was carried out on a composite sample from the four consignments of chia seed. An analysis for paraquat residues, however, was not provided by the applicant.

    From my test plots I find it highly improbable that some sort of defoliant (like paraquat) is not used with mechanical harvesting as shown on the websites.

    David Roberts

    24 January 2009 at 9:17 am

  194. Thank you, David for posting what seems to me to be an intelligent and unbiased response to my questions. That is what I was looking for and I appreciate it. I would be interested to know your preferred source for the product if you have one and if you care to share. Thanks again.

    Louann

    24 January 2009 at 1:25 pm

  195. David, are you a botanist? I know Margaret is. I think I’ll trust what she says more than what you say.

    I don’t have to be a scientist to know that if I want the best wheat it will be from Canada, if I want the best oranges they will come from Florida, if I want the best honey it will be Manuka from New Zealand, if I want the best salmon it will be Wild Pacific, etc. I just have to have some common sense.

    If I want the best type of Salvia hispanica L. I will choose Salba.

    I don’t know what you are looking at but I haven’t seen anything that states Salba is organic. You must be confused. I think you were looking at the Anutra site.

    Otis Taylor

    24 January 2009 at 8:34 pm

  196. No Otis, I am not a botanist. But I have personally grown several thousand acres of forage seeds in Canada and harvested several thousand acres of wheat in the USA. Canada may produce the “best” wheat, however all wheat grown in Canada is not equal and the “worst” wheat in a contest of samples from any number of Countries could also come from Canada. The same is true for oranges, honey, salmon, chia, or Salba. The Counry of origin does not guarantee the best quality. I, like you, believed from the hype that if I want the best type of Salvia hispanica L. I choose Salba. Part of that hype was that Salba could be differentiated from Chia by the color of the flowers. Not being a botanist or a research scientist, I relied on the expertise I had available and “simply put some seeds in the ground”. What I found was the “salba” seeds purchased from North Star actually grew 100% white flowers. The identical looking “Salba” seed I purchased from Iherb distributed by Core Naturals produced 100% purple flowers. Apparently both came from Peru. So now we have educated consumers like you and I believing that if we want the best type of Salvia hispanica L. we choose Salba, but is Salba what we are getting?
    You are correct about not seeing anything that states salba is organic. That was my point. The hype talks about pristine growing conditions blah, blah etc. but no mention of organic. The reason – it is not! I’m reasoably sure the original Aztec growers were not subjecting their product to paraquat and/or urea.
    Louann, I have found good results from the Salba/chia in spite of the marketing fraud. I continue to test and compare the growing aspect of the various samples. My preferred source is my own “organic” finca. (I am not producing sufficient quantities for selling)

    David Roberts

    24 January 2009 at 10:45 pm

  197. David, I very much respect what you are saying and your ability to grow. We have grown Salba in our backyard in very small amounts and the resulting flowers have always been white.

    I don’t think there has been any marketing fraud perpetrated by Salba though I very much believe the chia industry has done so – in the extreme. Especially Lifemax, Anutra and Omega-3 Chia. Have you read where Wayne Coates says that Lifemax will be teaching farmers in Zimbabwe and Sierra Leone to grow Mila – The Miracle Seed? I can’t wait for that to happen. I wish Dr. Coates much luck and I’ll be the first to congratulate him if he can make it out of there alive.

    There are so many products that make numerous health claims yet don’t manage to do anything. Salba has worked for me. That is all I care about. If chia was represented by a company with any degree of the intelligence that Salba has shown I might give it a try.

    David, when I find one, I will let everyone here know.

    Otis Taylor

    25 January 2009 at 10:30 pm

  198. Thank you Otis. The marketing fraud to which I’m referring is not by “Salba”, it is by Core Naturals under the leadership of Mitch Propster. My data is accurate and I have several more sealed containers of the same lot number for future reference. The fact that I have not been able to uncover previous fraudulent activity by Mr. Propster however is an anomaly.

    Background on several of those you mentioned can be found at http://thechiaters.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html .

    In spite of the disappointments on the marketing side of the ledger, I am convinced that salvia hispanica L. does have abundant merit and I will continue testing all aspects. More research work needs to be done to make this product commercially available in an organic form. The crop rotation excuse for being non organic is neither valid nor acceptable. The use of defoliant “if needed” on any food is simply ……. It is true that to become “certified organic” requires strict discipline but isn’t that what we are after? For those who are really interested in studying the agronomics of the issue I suggest reading a book entitled “Secrets of the Soil” by Peter Tomkins and Christopher Bird.

    David Roberts

    26 January 2009 at 1:56 am

  199. Oh dear, once again I’m missing all the action here.

    Mr. Roberts, I understand that your concern is that you have planted chia seed (trademarked as Salba) from 2 different sources and have had different results.

    Since you have experience growing wheat, you know that the source of your seed is of critical importance. Because so many of our crops have been subjected to breeding, we might expect some variability.

    Here’s an example: Plant pumpkin seeds from a seed company and you will get pumpkins similar to the picture on the package. But plant the pumpkin seeds that come out of your jack-o-lantern, you may or may not get normal pumpkins because maybe one of the jack-o-lantern’s parents was a different variety. You might get a “mutt” just as you do in dog breeding. I suspect that is why you’ve gotten variable results.

    About the seed color/flower color thing, it’s somewhat technical: the seed coat of chia seeds is determined in an unusual way. Normally a seed and its seed coat are produced inside a fruit of some sort, and the color and characteristics of these seeds is determined at the time of fertilization.

    However, in chia, and other members of the mint family (and in grasses) the seed coat is really part of the parent plant. It is like the skin of an apple, not like the coat of the apple seed. The seed color of the chia seeds is determined by the parent just like the color of the apple doesn’t depend upon what pollinates it, but rather on the genetic type of the parent plant.

    The pigment in the flowers is similar to the pigment in the seeds, so it makes sense that blue flowers would produce mostly dark seeds. But I don’t know for certain.

    Finally, please visit my website (by clicking my name above). I try to maintain an impartial position when it comes to the various brands. I have no affiliation with Lifemax, although I do have a friendly relationship with Wayne Coates and I have spoken with Jim Wear. I agree with you that the cost of Mila is probably not worth it. And having seen a certain amount of dirty generic chia seed, I’m inclined to think that Salba is more consistent in being of good quality. I don’t know anything about Mr. Propster’s operation in the US, but if you feel that his product does not meet Salba standards, you may want to contact Salba headquarters in Toronto.

    I believe that what we need is a free exchange of information among chia seed growers and a standardized method for judging the quality of chia seed.

    It’s time to get the Department of Agriculture involved, I believe.

    Margaret

    26 January 2009 at 3:50 pm

  200. Welcome back Margaret! We agree that the source of the seed is important. At issue are the claims by Core Naturals that their “salba” is from a long line of carefully selected seed that has been grown under strictly controlled conditions. If this were true, by both your standards and mine, we would not be getting any “mutts” so to speak. The fact is that “mutts” are exactly what we are getting. Your comment about the flower color related to seed color sounds logical but doesn’t grow out. I just today harvested a plot of white flowering Salba. When you put the seed samples side by side with Core Natural’s purple flowering product, they look identical.

    The technology to determine the DNA of a seed sample is now available and is a much faster and more reliable method to determine “what’s in the jar”.

    I think your suggestion for a free exchange of information among salvia hispanica L. seed growers and a standardized method for judging the quality of salvia hispanica L. seed is fantastic. I just hope there are sufficient “independent” growers willing to come forward. Perhaps we could create a producers cooperative to eliminate ALL the fraud from the ground up and get a quality organic product to the consumer at a decent price. I am confident the University of Costa Rica and the Costa Rica Department of Agriculture would be a great partner in this endeavor.

    David Roberts

    26 January 2009 at 6:37 pm

  201. David, it sounds like you have some sort of a vendetta against Core Naturals, which of course, is none of my business. But I must tell you that my sometimes foolish questions to them have always been dealt with in an exemplary fashion. My orders have always arrived on time and in excellent condition. I once even received a personal email from Mr. Propster himself. Core Naturals seem to be much more open and honest than many companies I have ordered from in the past.

    David, there are always anomalies in nature and just maybe that is what happened with your purple flowers. It seems that you are now getting the white flowers that you desire and I do hope you keep us informed of future developments with your Salba plants.

    Otis Taylor

    26 January 2009 at 9:01 pm

  202. Otis, we both are looking for the truth. You have exposed several of the “chiaters” but lets not blindly assume that this is good versus evil and the good is the Salba team. My expose of Core Naturals is for the benefit of people who are paying the premium for Salba because they believe the research has been done and they can have confidence in the product. Because chia seems to be producing very similar if not identical results how are you to know if you are taking Salba or Chia? It is my contention that Core Naturals knowingly sold (sells) chia packaged as “certified Salba” and is profiting by this fraud. As salvia hispanica L. requires an “unAmerican climate” for reproduction and virtually all the customers would be American, the chances of someone actually “growing out” the product was thought to be slim. I do not know how much of Core Naturals production was fraudulent but I do know that all the samples I have grown out from lot number EPOHOGZ are chia. If anyone else wants to check (anybody’s product) all they have to do is plant some seeds indoors near their other plants. In a month’s time the color of the flower will be evident. Give it a try. Now if you find that your “certified salba” seeds are producing purple flowers what will you do?

    Otis, the white flowered Salba I’m getting is derived from Salba seeds that also came from white flowering seeds. If I continue to reproduce the purple flowering variety – they will continue to produce purple flowering plants. The actual color of the seed itself is not a factor.

    David Roberts

    27 January 2009 at 2:38 am

  203. This doesn’t even seem like its Leisure Guy’s blog anymore, seems like the Salba/Core Natural’s hater David Roberts has taken over the blog.

    …just saying.

    I’ve taken the regular Chia for atleast 10 years prior to last year. Last year my nutritionist introduced me to Salba and after a few weeks I really noticed the difference between what I used to take and salba, especially the much lighter taste.

    I know this blog was created to educate, but its a shame you (David) are turning it into a haterfest.

    Sara

    30 January 2009 at 1:19 pm

  204. Thank you Sara for your observations. Let me assure you there is no hate involved. Have you considered there may many less savy than you who could be taking what you used to take? Am I a “hater” for bringing this to others attention. I’ve made the point and now will move on to try and be helpful in a positive way. Whatever I have been recommending has been helpful to others even if it was chia. The most consistent comment was that 2 tablespoons per day of regular use seems to accelerate wanted weight loss.

    David Roberts

    30 January 2009 at 2:34 pm

  205. Wonderful reading. since it seems a while since anyone posted, is Leisure Guy still out there? I was wondering about growing in middle Georgia. Or am I better off to just buy seeds and eat. 150 growing days could be done here…or close to it

    thanks,

    dermommy

    15 February 2009 at 8:12 am

  206. I’m still here. If you click the blog title, you are taken to the most recent posts. So far as growing chia, I have no thoughts on that. I buy mine. (Apartment dweller.)

    LeisureGuy

    15 February 2009 at 8:14 am

  207. Chia is daylength sensitive and will not flower in time to set seed before the end of the growing season.

    It can really only be grown in the subtropics. However, there are plant breeders at work trying to develop a strain of chia that can be grown in the US.

    So you’ll have to wait.

    Visit my website for photos of chia plants growing in my New York garden, and to learn more….

    Margaret

    15 February 2009 at 1:58 pm

  208. We’ve been trying our first bag of Salba (360g/$25Cdn) for two weeks and even our 2 kids don’t mind it. Actually our 15 year-old claimed that when she had her 1.5 T with her yogurt in the morning, she doesn’t get hungry in school until lunch time as opposed to feeling a bit hungry by mid-morning.

    My husband and I were just talking today how this Salba is not something we can keep buying on a regular basis for a family of four at $25/bag. At this price, one bag only lasts just over a week. Yes, I know, good healthy comes at a price, but still …

    Then I was browsing the latest issue of ‘Costco Connection’ (Mar/Apr 2009) that came in the mail. Imagine my surprise when I saw an ad for ChiaNutra and that it’s the tiny seed of Salvia hispanica L. ChiaNutra is by webber naturals and the bottle says ‘highest quality certified black and white chia seeds’, NSRI Certified, ISO 9001. We cannot find the item on the Canadian Costco website (maybe it’s only in stores) but my husband found it on the US one and it retails for $13USD (looks like it’s for 360g as well).

    Something to consider at half the price of Salba.

    Vivien

    28 February 2009 at 11:04 pm

  209. Vivien,

    You should checkout http://www.superseeds.ca/ as an affordable Canadian option (based out of Toronto).

    Prices equate to $13/lb (450g) CDN.

    Brad

    1 March 2009 at 7:45 am

  210. Another place to check out is http://www.nutsonline.com They have Chia for 6.99 and 7.99/lb or 5.49/bulk (25lb cases) and will ship to Canada. They are a great company that I have purchased many items from over the past several years. Best price I have found.

    Louann

    1 March 2009 at 9:10 am

  211. This is in response to Vivien. Vivien, it is wise to be careful as to which company you choose to buy chia seed from for your family. You mentioned “NSRI” which stands for Nutritional Science Research Institute. NSRI does not exist. It is an address for a house owned by Dr. Bukowski who is the scientific spokesperson for Omega-3 Chia. In fact, Chia Nutra as it is called in Canada uses the research performed by Salba Corp. to market their product, of course without the permission of Salba. I prefer to purchase Salba because it is REALLY endorsed by the world-renowned University of Toronto, the same university that discovered Insulin. Has anyone ever stated here that the reason these chia companies can sell their product so cheaply is that they don’t have to pay for any research?

    Otis Taylor

    9 March 2009 at 9:41 am

  212. Scientific research, particularly that done by public institutions, is generally speaking in the public domain, though it’s always good to give specific credit by linking to the research article in question.

    LeisureGuy

    9 March 2009 at 10:20 am

  213. Hi LeisureGuy et al, great conversation and information, thanks!

    I have a couple of questions for anyone who still reads the comments on this 1.5 year old blog post.

    (Disclaimer: I happen to work for a company that sells chia seeds along with many other products. But my questions are honest questions, and I’m hoping someone can answer them.)

    1) First, I know this may sound rhetorical but it’s not: When buying e.g. bananas, do we look for a specific, branded varietal? Do we shun Costco if their corn is not “Corn Illini Xtra-Sweet Hybrid”? Personally I have never thought of doing that. My question is: Why should we treat chia seeds differently?

    Does it have to do with some difference in the way the FDA regulates bananas and corn versus chia seeds? Or is it that chia seeds are sort of a “dietary supplement” rather than just a “food” and therefore we need to be very careful as to the origin?

    Certainly I could see preferring white chia seeds over dark ones, just like I prefer yellow corn over white corn for its slightly different flavor, but beyond color, I don’t know, I can’t decide how much a branded varietal should matter. I guess personally I feel like if Trader Joe’s or Costco sells something, it’s probably good and safe. Is this unwarranted? Anyway, for people on either side of the issue, clarifying this distinction might help. Any thoughts?

    2) My second question is, can anyone find the patent(s) specific to Salba? I just spent several hours digging around for it/them. Sorry if this gets long but perhaps it’ll be useful to anyone wishing to dig further; here’s my results so far:

    Several websites (including Salba’s) casually reference “60/274,256″. However, this isn’t a Patent Number. It’s actually a US Provisional Patent Application Number. Dr. Vladimir Vuksan acquired it on 9-Mar-2001 (I can’t find the actual document, sorry). Note that I said “provisional”… It’s actually just a placeholder, valid for one year, which essentially allows an inventor to “call dibs” on a concept without actually disclosing the details of it. It must be substantiated within a year by a real Patent Application.

    Dr. Vuksan filed an international patent application with WIPO on 11-Mar-2002 (9th was a weekend), titled “Salvia Hispanica L. (Chia) in the management and treatment of cardiovascular disease, diabetes and associated risk factors,” resulting in International Application No. PCT/CA2002/000327 (Published 19-Sept as WO/2002/072119). He cited his US provisional application number, thus extending his claim back to 9-Mar-2001.

    Interestingly, except for something unintelligible in Table 6, this application does not mention Salba, nor any specific chia varietal as far as I can tell. (To be fair, the Salba trademark wasn’t applied for in the US until 25-Jun-2002, but still, the patent doesn’t even mention the color of the seeds.) Based on that WIPO/PCT application, a number of country/region-specific patents applications were filed, including one in Canada (2440166), and one in the US (Application Number 20040185129).

    However, neither of those applications were ever granted patents. The CA one languished, due at least partially to unpaid fees. I can’t find a status log of the US application, but I found what appears to be a replacement application, filed 17-Jun-2008: 20080305190. It appears the same except that 20 of the 40 claims have been canceled.

    No patent has been granted for this recent, revised application either, but that’s not abnormal given that it was filed so recently.

    So, here’s what I can tell so far: There is a patent *pending* for using chia seeds to manage cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and associated risk factors (it is very very broad, but mentions the oft-repeated blood glucose regulation among many other things). This patent application is not Salba-specific at all. I cannot find any other Salba-related patents, pending or granted.

    In the interests of balanced discussion, it does appear that Dr. Vuksan did quite a bit of research related to the health benefits of eating chia seeds, including some recent work that was Salba-specific.

    Although I’m a bit worried that he’s endorsing Salba for monetary gain, his credentials on the U of Toronto website are certainly respectable, so his vote for Salba is probably worth something. I think for the most part though, his work reveals the advantages chia seeds have over other foods like flax seeds, rather than the advantages Salba has over other chia seeds.

    Again, I apologize for how longwinded this is. Ultimately, I am trying to evaluate the claim that Salba is “the only food that holds a medical patent.” Is this true? If so, what patent?

    Thanks again for a great comment thread everyone (especially our host LeisureGuy), and I’d appreciate any info anyone has to share!

    Ben

    24 March 2009 at 9:40 pm

  214. I am a lawyer well-versed in patent litigation, although I do not practice as a patent attorney. I have personally purchased both salba and chia. I would like to explain to Ben the reason why I believe the patent on Salba was made in the name of Salvia hispanica L. instead of the actual Salba grain. My opinion is that the Salba company wanted the patent to encompass all of Salvia hispanica L. instead of making it specific to Salba because if the patent extends to all Salvia hispanica L., the chia companies will not be able to make the same claim on chia, which is a type of Salvia hispanica L. Having the patent apply to all Salvia hispanica L. averts the opportunity for chia companies to duplicate salba’s research.

    Fred

    26 March 2009 at 6:41 pm

  215. Thanks Fred, that makes sense. Hmm, but since the (pending) patent is on using the food for specific medicinal purposes, wouldn’t it mean that the *user* of that food is the one violating that patent, unless they have a license? e.g. If I buy any kind of chia seeds, including Salba, and then use them to control my glucose levels, aren’t I breaking the law (unless Salba grants me a license at the time I buy their chia seeds)? Or does the violation extend to anyone (without a license) marketing chia seeds as being useful for the patented purpose? I guess patenting the use of a naturally available food for medicinal purposes still seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

    Ah, your final sentence mentions the research… Yes, I could see how that might be blocked by such a patent. If they can block competitors from a) doing their own research, and b) citing the (soon-to-be?) patented health claims, that sounds handy. :) Good catch, thanks.

    (One minor clarification: You mention that chia is a *type* of Salvia hispanica L. but my understanding is that chia is the common name of Salvia hispanica L. *itself*, not just one type of it. Salba is a type of chia. That doesn’t preclude Salba from being better than the average chia though of course. If it’s been bred carefully for certain traits, it could well be more nutritious than average. All Salba is chia, but not all chia is Salba. :))

    Ben

    26 March 2009 at 11:29 pm

  216. I have read many of the statements made on this blog and have also checked out most of the references relating to cia seeds and Salba. I also receive Northstar nutritional advertisement regarding Salba. They state their product is grown in Peru wherein the earlier 2007 blogs Salba was stated as being grown in the US/Canada under environmentally controlled conditions with a patent pending.

    My question is Northstar sells Salba for $29.95/lb,which isn’t the highest price found on the internet, while Nutsonline sells chia seeds black seeds for $6.99/lb. and white seeds for $7.99/lb Now both of these products, chia seeds and Salba are termed as salvia hispanica, why is there such a huge difference in price?

    And considering the statement Ben made “All Salba is chia, but not all chia is Salba” how and why does Northstar tout their productis the best when the US grown states that it is the only Salba?

    jim

    31 March 2009 at 10:54 pm

  217. Hi jim,

    Maybe you were looking for feedback from someone besides me, but I’ll take a whack.

    Regarding Salba’s growing location, I haven’t seen any mention of it actually being *grown* in US/Canada. The company and the researchers are based in Canada, but my impression from various internet sources is that they’ve done their careful selective breeding program in South America. I seem to recall that they were originally in a country other than Peru, but that Peru is now where they do their growing. But, if you can find any record of the 2007 blog posts you mention, I’d be interested in reading them. Or does anyone else reading these comments have thoughts on this?

    All, or nearly all, commercial chia (including Salba) comes from that region of the world, because chia needs a long growing season.

    As for the price difference, Salba simply claims that it is better for you than average chia. Salba started with plain old normal chia, and carefully bred it to maximize its nutritional properties (and its light color). Also, they paid scientists to study its health benefits. So they theoretically are selling a more refined kind of chia seeds, and they are backing those specific chia seeds with scientific study results.

    In reality it’s hard to know just *how much better* Salba is than average chia seeds. Certainly part of their price is due to hype, just like any other capitalist market. Hopefully it’s not *only* hype though. Until/unless someone does a careful, controlled, independent study comparing Salba to other chia seeds, you’ll probably have to decide for yourself if it’s snake oil or if it’s worth the extra $22/lb.

    But again, I don’t think the growing location is a big deal either way. What matters is how much better/more consistent Salba’s breed is, versus other breeds of chia. (And how much more you trust them due to their scientific studies/credentials.)

    Ben

    1 April 2009 at 1:29 am

  218. (One more thing: Those scientific studies that Salba cites…. none of them seem to actually compare Salba to other chia seeds. They only compare Salba to other different foods, like flax seed. It’s not clear whether other chia seeds would have seen the same improvements over e.g. flax seed. But of course Salba uses the research to imply that they are definitively better than other chia seeds. It’s best to take those claims with a grain of salt unless you can find a study that made a direct comparison.)

    Ben

    1 April 2009 at 1:40 am

  219. Have just seen a newspaper advert in The Ledger ( Florida US ) stating that salba is proven to have a beneficial effect for Type 2 Diabetes as well as a whole flotilla of other health benefits and it cites Professor Vladimir Vuksan has confirmed these claims in his research work on salba .

    The comments I have read on this site seem to concentrate on price differential between chia seeds and the salba marketed product but what I would like to know is whether salba is as beneficial as the advert states and how much one can rely on this particular professor who I gather has tried to take out a patent on salba ?

    Does anyone know ?

    Steve

    Steve

    27 April 2009 at 4:09 pm

  220. The work is published in a peer reviewed journal, so it is scientifically sound. The only question concerns the difference between Salba (which he tested) and generic chia (which he didn’t). No one knows if there is any difference between the effects of the two.

    Margaret

    2 May 2009 at 7:03 am

  221. Wow – I’m just discovering the benefits of chia/salba myself. Thanks for this resource – I wish I had found it some time ago.

    I did some reading about Salba and got some samples at a food show. I have to say, I did think that I was feeling some benefit from it (but with a three-day sample, it was hard to tell). The salba seeds look different than chia but I plan to use whatever I think works best with some consideration for the price differences.

    Laura

    8 May 2009 at 1:37 pm

  222. I would really like to try both chia and salba. However, posts like the above lead me to believe that everyone is what I call “cut and paste” information they have seen on other posts or web sites.

    Steve’s post on April 27th asks the same question I have “Does anyone know?”

    Proof that Salba is more beneficial.
    What particular data is reliable
    Is it true that Salba is a refined Chia plant

    In this day and age when you cannot buy a vitamin pill without wondering if it going to benefit you (because the manufacturer has no intergrity in the ingredients used) how can I believe any information on Salba or even Chia.

    Charliemack

    26 May 2009 at 8:10 am

  223. There is proof that Salba is beneficial, but no studies yet comparing Salba and generic chia. However, certainly some cultivars of other food plants are more desirable than others.

    The simplest method would be for you to buy a pound of Salba and a pound of generic chia and compare them for yourself.

    LeisureGuy

    26 May 2009 at 8:32 am

  224. hello, first post here. it would seem that the hype about chia or Salba re: Omega 3 benefits is mis-placed, based on data from the nutsonline.com website on the chia seeds. It states that 30% of the oil is omega 3, 40% is omega 6, then goes on to say that is nature’s perfect balance ratio. If that is true, then chia/Salba isn’t really an omega 3 supplement, is it? It may still be a good food, given the ratio of omega3:omega6 and other nutritional benefits, but doesn’t appear to correct our omega 3 deficiencies. My understanding, from reading and an M.D. is that we need more omega 3s in our diet because the average American diet is too heavy on omega 6s (from processed food) and if we supplement, take ONLY omega 3s.

    any nutritional expert opinions?

    jenz

    7 July 2009 at 12:11 pm

  225. Nutsonline is in error.
    1 ounce of chia seed has 8.6g of fat including:
    Total Omega-3 fatty acids: 4.9g
    Total Omega-6 fatty acids: 1.6g

    That’s 57% omega-3s and only 19% omega-6. A ratio of 3:1.

    This information comes from NutritionData.com.

    margaret

    10 July 2009 at 8:10 pm

  226. I was in a popular natural food chain today and noticed that they had chia on the shelf for $19.99 for a 16oz package (or $0.53 per day at the recommended serving of 1T). Salba was $15.99 for a 12.7oz package (or $0.533 per day at the recommended serving of 1T). Looks to me like the benefits of nutritional consistency, and knowing exactly where the seeds come from (among other things) are definitely worth an extra $0.003 per day.

    Jack

    14 July 2009 at 12:07 pm

  227. Interesting blog. Have just found out about chia seeds here in Dixie where as an ex-pat Englishman who is very cynical about claims about superfoods etc I very recently bought two 1lb bags of black (with a few white) chia seeds from a rather hippy like internet shop.

    I’ve seen several web sites supposedly selling “organic” chia seed, etc but no proof is offered as to how/when this designation was bestowed.
    Given the previous comments above about the growing process and the lack of organic certification etc,, how exactly does one know for sure that these “organic” claims are not just a scam?

    Thus far have tried my ordinary chia only a couple of times in a large veggie/fruit smoothie made in my shiny new Vita Mix machine with loads of different stuff. Hard to tell of course if the chia is having any effect, given the amount of other stuff imbibed, plus just twice is clearly not the optimum usage needed for a fair evaluation.

    The prices do seem to go from the punitively expensive ‘Salba’ to @ $6/7 a pound. Although any added shipping always adds to the per lb cost. This Salba company is definitely one I would stay well away from. The black seeds seem good enough for a poor parsimonious peasant like me. I will see if my local Atlanta area Costco has chia. Not seen them thus far, but have not been looking.

    jesus wept

    26 July 2009 at 7:39 pm

  228. Hey “jesus wept”,

    You ask about how to verify organic certification. That’s a good question these days. It’s hard to know for sure of course, but that’s what the USDA Organic program attempts to address:

    Retailers should be able to show you a copy of their organic certification for the food in question.

    That certificate, in turn, comes from a certifier like QAI or CCOF. If you’d like, you should be able to check with that certifier to see if they really did certify the retailer/product in question.

    And finally you can check whether that certifier is actually legit under the USDA Organic program (QAI and CCOF certainly are).

    If you can trace that whole sequence of certifications, you can be sure, at least, that the USDA believes the food to be organic. How much you trust the USDA is a separate question of course. :)

    Hope that helps!

    Ben

    27 July 2009 at 8:56 am

  229. Cheers Ben.

    I knew about the paper chase to “prove” the organic claims. I just wondered if anyone on here had actually found a genuinely organic source of the seeds.

    jesus wept

    28 July 2009 at 9:12 am

  230. I’ve been using chia for over a month and it is a great product and a great superfood that is AFFORDABLE I got it on line 3 pounds for tweny bucks with free shipping on Amazon.com.
    I just found out about Salba and looked into it but it cost three times as much – this is just another example of corporate greed taking a natural product hoarding the source and then making it more desirable and selling it at high cost.
    People don’t buy into this stick with Chia!

    Rob

    28 July 2009 at 4:57 pm

  231. Please check out this article! Some of the health claims for chia seeds have not been substantiated in recent clinical trials!

    If you are especially interested in chia vs. Salba, the article also cites an interesting and relevant study by Ayerza.

    margaret

    31 July 2009 at 6:21 am

  232. jesus wept:

    Hmm, good point / good question. “Genuinely organic” is easy to say, hard to prove. :) Let me ask you this then. As mentioned in my first comment back in March, I work for a retailer (unnamed because I’m not here to spam) that sells chia among other things. We recently started carrying organic chia too though, and I could dig around a bit if it would be useful. Thus, given that you know about the “paper trail” of USDA Organic, what further info would you find interesting/helpful?

    margaret:

    Very interesting links! The first seems to confirm omega-3 value but call into question most of the other benefits. I’m curious if further studies will bear this out, though of course there’s a lot of vested interest in selling chia, so who knows.

    I was excited when you mentioned chia vs. Salba but I can’t seem to find any reference to that in your second link? In fact it deals entirely with one specific genotype of chia, Tzoltzol. Quite interesting though. It seems to show that growing location matters a lot. Some locations made for higher protein content, others made for higher omega-3 content. And Salba does claim that they grow everything in one place, so it’s more likely their product will be more consistent than other sources of chia.

    I got curious about Ricardo Ayerza’s use of a specific genotype (Tzotzol), and I dug around more, hoping to find out what genotype of chia Salba is using, but I haven’t found anything yet. Does anyone know what chia genotype Salba uses? (I’ve also seen and used the term “variety” but in the plant world this seems to be a legal term and a botanical term, and I don’t think Salba fits either meaning. Salba *might* be a unique “cultivar” but again that word seems to have specific connotations that might or might not apply here. Alas, the company seems to have no interest in clearing up this confusion, for better or for worse.)

    Ayerza has done few other studies as well, comparing multiple genotypes and locations, including this and this (but unfortunately the second one is only the abstract, the full article costs money). He seems to have found that genotype matters as well, but all of his studies seem to confirm that growing location matters most.

    So. Since it seems that growing location matters, I wonder if it would be useful for all chia distributors to start documenting/publishing where their product was grown?

    Anyway, sorry to (again) ramble so much, but hopefully someone finds the above info to be useful. Thanks again for the good links!

    Ben

    31 July 2009 at 7:42 pm

  233. Ben

    Please go ahead and tell me which site you’re linked to. I’ll look and see how the organic designation is ‘presented’ on your website. I’m assuming the shipping is @ the same as other sites. I’m also assuming your company has done a little bit more than just upload an organic logo :) As I’ve specifically asked for this, hopefully it won’t be deemed spam.

    The omega/fiber/protein etc “mix” isn’t that important to me. If it varies a bit here and there – who cares? I’ve noticed that using the seeds in my daily Vita Mix drinkies the bog standard chia seeds are having a very positive “stiffening” effect – without getting too vulgar or graphic . Ultimately, trying to assiduously micromanage the exact amount of nutrients/protein/omegas/fiber etc is really for your ultra anal types. Obviously excepting those who might have a extremely specific/urgent medical need.

    Life is just too short to endlessly agonise over the mgs or mcgs of this or that, within a “normal” (whatever that maybe) well balanced diet. I could care less about Salba and their seemingly endless attempts at “proof” of this or that.

    The Aztec types in the past didn’t have nutritionists and and food police and organic associations etc. I would ONLY buy organic chia simply because it would be better to avoid any nasty pesticides etc – but as someone posted way above – the chia plant doesn’t seem to need much – if any of that. If there was a huge price differential between organic and every day peasant food than it’d be the peasant stuff for me. More on principle than anything else I have to say. We English like our “bloodymindedness” :)

    jesus wept

    1 August 2009 at 11:24 am

  234. Hi try this Mila seed of lifemax http://www.miracleseedof.lifemax.net and see the difference.
    Thank you

    bern

    5 August 2009 at 4:41 am

  235. Hilarious!!!!

    Mila sure does seem a lot like an ‘Amway for chia’ with what looks like – albeit with a fairly cursory read – a typical MLM pyramid. With “meetings” in affluent areas in mostly the SE to recruit well heeled buyers etc. Nice glossy website if nothing else.

    Another “rival” to Salba at $55 a pound. A selflessly generous $5 off a lb if you sign up for constant ordering. The often rather self serving testimonials are laughable too. Losing 29lbs in six weeks – that’s @ 5lbs a week – just by eating some very pricy seeds!! … Or 7lbs in just THREE DAYS … WOW!!! Wonder what nutritional issues that individual had?

    Bet the Aztecs and other early S. American chia users, who for some reason didn’t bother to precisely measure and contrast chia’s magnesium content with broccoli would be mighty proud.

    jesus wept

    5 August 2009 at 9:27 am

  236. Hi All:

    I’ve been following this blog for quite some time and needless to say there are some very interesting conversations. Additionally, I have had the opportunity to do some long research on many of the companies that offer salvia hispanica products including salba.

    Here is what I have found out about a few of them…

    Mila to my knowlesdge is nothing more than a pyramid scheme. Dr. Wayne Coates is the associated Dr. puppet for this organzation that sells nothing more than mexican chia acquired at about 3.00/lb for 55.00/lb – nice deal! By the way – Mila is just another sales outlet for a company called Arizona chia – you should check out their super high quality web site (don’t choke when you see it)

    I contacted NOW Foods who is supposedly a reputable company and asked them about their claim of 3760 mg/ per serving on their label. This was so high compared ot others I had to ask for the analysis – Big Surprise – they would not email it to me. Hmm… I wonder why…

    Next I tried Omega 3 chia – these guys claim their chia is certified by NSRI (the nutritonal science research institute) turns out the NSRI is nothing more than a shell company that only researches products for one company – Omega 3! More Scam artists!

    Then of course there’s Anutra – this one is started by a guy named Angelo Morini who was also involved in Guess Who??? Mila – yep! based on my research they canned him for God knows what…oh yeah – Anutra is another fancy name for mexican chia

    I keep researching these companies and I’m dumfounded that there even is a chia industry – that seems to be rife with dreadful people.

    Finally of course I checked out salba – TRUE – their product is more expensive, but in all reality to the tune of about .25/day – now everyone here knows how truly insigninficant this difference is but I checked out their site at http://www.salba.com and they apparently have their sh… together. I’ve researched their registered varieties claims (with South America) and they are valid, I have researched all of the media outlets they claim to have been featured on and guess what.. ALL True! Most importantly, I researched the all important RESEARCH that was published in Diabetes Care in late 2007. Yep – that’s real too and the studies were performed on their specific varities! I spoke to the University of Toronto and they confirmed this. Finally, I asked one of their reps about the chis vs. salba quesiton – and in all fairness she gave me a pretty good answer –

    “We’ve never said that there isn’t good generic chia out there, we’ve only been supporting all along what salba has been PROVEN to do, as a buyer of nutritional products isn’t that why you go through the trouble of paying a little more for organic, or standardized or clinically proven? We believe our product is worth it, and based on repeat customer orders – so do they!”

    I’m not sure about all the readers here but I followed Leisure Guys advice and I tried looking at all of both sides (the research, the claims, the write ups, the recognition, and of course…) the product itself. What I found more times than not was inconsistency in chias label claims and no real consistent message – one even claimed to have 40X the omega 3 of salmon!!!

    I did find however that salba was consistently clean, consistently marketed, consistently written about – they even won best new supplement from Better Nutrition last year and I found out their CEO was publishe in Natural Food Merchandiser also.

    Most importantly I found that salba worked consistently – yep – I’ll pay the couple of extra bucks to be sure!

    Healthy Warrior

    Healthy Warrior

    20 August 2009 at 5:05 pm

  237. Dear Healthy Warrior:

    I totally agree with your opinions on Salba. There is no doubt that Salba is really a better product than regular chia. The price of Salba has dropped a little and the price of chia has gone up. In fact you can find both at almost the same price in some stores. Anyway, I work for a health food store in South Florida where we sell both. We recently received an e-mail from the Salba farmers in South America letting us know that they are not selling any more Salba to a company called Core Naturals, which is the company you referred in http://www.salba.com. What I understand from the letter is that this company is selling white chia instead of Salba. In fact, we have had a couple of complaints on the quality of the product we received from Core Naturals. In this same blog, David Roberts mentioned the fact that this company had committed fraud by selling chia for Salba. We called Salba Corporation and they confirmed that they had not sold any Salba to Core Naturals since last May. They believe that it is highly unlikely that this company still has some Salba inventory. They say that if store owners want to be 100% sure of what we are getting, they should purchase Salba from Salba Smart (www.salbasmart.com). Let’s hope this helps to keep credibility on this wonderful product called Salba.

    Caroline

    25 August 2009 at 11:55 am

  238. Caroline:

    I’m glad you responded, which naturally caused me to perform further investigation. Upon doing so I was able to get in touch with the CEO of Core Naturals and his is what I learned: apparently the farming co-op that was being used in the Ica region of of Peru shipped in some 7 containers worth of product that would have been considered “high risk”. I asked them to show me proof, and in confidence he shared with me 27 analytical test results that showed abnormally high levels of moisture (pre cursors to possible yeast or mold). I confirmed the authenticity of these tests with the 3rd party lab. He let me know that due to strict controls, they were able to prevent this tainted product from moving into production.

    The “True and Legal” owners of Salba located in Canada apparently opted to move away from this growing co-op and relinquished rights to grow the Salba varieties and consequently to use the Salba name – I checked out http://www.uspto.gov to confirm who the owners of Salba are and indeed the owners are Salba Corp., N.A. owned by Larry and Thelma Brown in Canada, so beware, because the people that you may be speaking with in Peru or Argentina are not the legal owners of Salba though they may attempt to claim this. If you are the owners of a store, I would think you should perform your due diligence and speak to the legal owners of Salba Corp., N.A., located at http://www.salba.info

    Further, I also asked about the David Roberts entry – he couldnt help laughing however – he recalled that David Roberts’ claim was that product in certain lots were not Salba because he grew some and sprouted purple flowers – obviously he said this is nonsense for two reasons:
    1st) because although you can breed out a large portion of the purple or blue flowers you can at times still see them sporatically throughout the crop. 95% of the time however the flowers will be white.
    2nd) because based on the lot numbers there was no possible way this person could have seen flower growth from the time he claimed purchasing, to the time he wrote the blog – (it takes about 5 months!)

    Naturally I asked if they were still growing in Peru, and about inventory of seed and he let me know that due to increased consumer demand for Salba they have expanded their growing to three additional regions for redundancy. Apparently for consideration of confidentiality he could not yet reveal the specifics, but let me know they plan to make some publicity outreach in the very near future regarding this and that they will be harvesting plenty of Salba in November/December.

    As for Salba Smart products, I had seen their products available at Amazon before, but noticed yesterday that they were not there anymore. So I called Amazon and asked them why they were not there – Amazon told me they had been removed for “legal” reasons – hmm… I wonder who is telling the truth…

    He also said that there was going to be the release of some very interesting news about the origins of Salvia Hispanica growing, that will turn the industry upside down -they plan to publish all of this in the newly released version of their book called “Return of the Ancient Seed” I guess we have to wait!

    Healthy Warrior

    Healthy Warrior

    9 September 2009 at 6:07 am

  239. Larry Brown told me yesterday that Salba Smart is no longer affiliated with Salba Corp. N.A. and that he is taking legal action against the company. He didn’t offer any reasons.

    margaret

    11 September 2009 at 8:39 am

  240. Hey, does anyone know anything about basil seed, Are they the same thing as chia? My mom buys them at the indian grocery store, for two bucks for 8 oz. They look the same in size color and texture, also become jelly like when put into water. She claims that they are the same, does anyone know if this is true. I have searched google for info on this but have come up short handed.

    paul

    14 September 2009 at 9:47 pm

  241. http://www.chiativity.org/2009/03/holy-basil-batm.html

    No, chia is not the same thing as basil, but it’s similar. It’s a different plant, although it’s related

    margaret

    19 September 2009 at 7:50 am

  242. i think what you guys mean for a regular chia is the black chia seed. White chia seed is same as salba. The seed is from salvia hispanica l. Both contain the same nutrition we need. But what i noticed is white chia seed is cheaper than salba. Cheaper price doesn’t mean that it is not effective at all. I am just being practical. So i prefer to use chia since i am getting healthier. But i am not saying that salba is not good for my health. Both are great for health but in terms of price i’ll go for chia.

    macy

    22 September 2009 at 3:12 pm

  243. What a read! Great info trail. Someone sent me the Mila link today and I found I am growing the product already – chia! Mine have blue flowers. It is a shame to see food sold with profit in mind rather than nutrition. Also, reading the lifemax site, I just love their “answer” to the question on “Is Mile Organic”.

    Without saying NO, they say
    1. remember organic is more expensive (so instead of $55 a pound, what would we pay? $110?)
    2. The leaves of the plant are not attacked by any insects so they are never sprayed (ok, fine)
    3. Farmers may use fertilizers but don’t worry, nothing they could add ends up in the seed.

    So much more “high quality”. Can’t be bothered to certify organic yet charge the highest price on the market?

    Can’t be bothered to do a lab test to prove that the nasty fertilizers are not entering the seed but still charge 11 times the going rate for ORGANIC seeds?

    All this entirely contradicts the answer to the question “what makes Mila different” – which is supposedly quality! He readily admits in his own staged interview that they have absolutely NO idea what chemicals are used in the ground nor any control nor any care to!

    The Future

    2 October 2009 at 10:54 am

  244. Salba is grown around Ica, Peru by a pair of Argentine brothers. They have a bit of a challenge there because it almost never rains in Ica, so their thirsty plants must be heavily irrigated. This drives up the cost of farming.

    One good thing about Ica is that there is no other naturally growing chia in the area, therefore no cross pollination with black/mottled seed.

    What I think is really driving the cost up with Salba, among other things, is the marketing money that has been spent on promoting the brand. Statistically speaking, there is no difference in the nutritional content of Salba (white seed) vs. normal chia, or white/black/mottled seed (S. hispanica). Salba is a great product, and so is naturally occuring, non-selected chia seed. The only difference is the color.

    What is really important to producing a high quality chia is, along with good agricultural practices, is location, location, location. Key to high oil, high Omega-3 content in the oil, is consistent hours of sunlight during flowering, and a cool (no frost), moist growing season. I have seen chia seed grown under conditions that produce a seed with over 35% oil and upwards of 69% alpha-linolenic acid (omega-3). I doubt any chia grown in the coastal lowlands of southern Peru could ever hope to yield such seed.

    David Overstreet

    6 October 2009 at 8:18 pm

  245. Hi everyone;

    Thank you all, for such a great blog and keeping it real here! I just humbly wanted to let you all know that are now harvesting a few hundred acres in the REAL Aztec heartlands, on the shoulders “Don Goyo” our noble Volcano. Our pilot project production harvest, has just begun and will continue for the next several weeks.

    We just received results of the complete Oil analysis from Silliker laboratories on our Cooperatives “Aztec Black” Chia seed. Ok, we do have 0.5% Ivory colored to light brown seeds. We are considering them to be perhaps, underdeveloped. Our seed is very dark red and dark brown with black streaks under a magnifier and to the naked eye, looks black but it’s definitely NOT the Grey Chia seeds, that seems to be the common harvest in most other non- Chia origin, regions.

    Anyway, the seeds we harvested push the envelope on both complete Oils and ALA Omega 3’s. There is perfect 4:1 ratio on the n6 and n3’s. When I say push the envelope, I refer to comparing our recently harvested seeds to either the obscure South American labs analysis (conveniently in Spanish) on several NSRI sites and standard U of A analysis that have been copied to death from years back and used as a reference or standard by all, it seems.

    We also commissioned complete ORAC w/polyphenols, TEAC and FRAP testing analysis with Brunswick labs and we are right off the charts on antioxidant capacity when compared to other published test results.

    The main purpose of writing to you all, is to give you the hopefully welcome news, that we will NOT be charging exorbitant prices to our retail distributors and ask that they keep markups realistic, great prices and above market quality is where we hope to position ourselves.

    Our main marketing focus will be to the wholesale food industry but will reserve a portion of our harvest to be distributed to the personal use market because we feel it’s not our right, to deny our real Aztec Chia to all that enjoy this truly remarkable seed.

    Thank you for your patience in reading this message. Most of all, thanks to all of you and especially to you leisure guy for all the hard work and unbelievable tenacity, patience and goodwill you bestow. Really, you deserve a sound round of applause and yes, I for one will keep clapping! Thank you.

    Nick

    4 November 2009 at 12:18 am

  246. I would like to purchase some chia seeds to plant in Nicaragua.

    Is there any one in the Country that has seeds available?

    Thank you,

    Jacobo

    Jacobo Arguello

    22 November 2009 at 1:17 am

  247. In reference to: Comments of – 4 October 2007 at 11:40 am @

    Re: http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/salba-chia-seed/#comments

    I often do a bit of “back burner project” investigating on leisure days like today and chose to further investigate information, that I had read in comments left a couple of years ago on this blog by E.Parillo (referenced above)

    For those who might wonder why on earth I would actually spend my time on this, it’s because I belong to a Chia grower association in the high mountain volcanic region of Mexico (heart of former Aztec empire country) As we are fast approaching, our 2009 harvest period, I have the opportunity to inspect our developing seed as it matures and need to gather botanical related information.

    Anyway, I wanted to look over the Patent pending applications or issued Patents for both “Sahi Alba 911″ and “Sahi Alba 912″ as mentioned by E. Parillo from Core Naturals (Salba) And went to my favorite trust worthy search database at http://www.uspto.gov (US patent and trademark office) I was hoping that by reading their “Invention” Application I would better understand the specifics on how the Peruvian grown Chia is unique enough to be patentable.

    To my somewhat expected surprise, I received the following results to my queries –

    Results of Search in US Patents Text Collection db for:
    “Sahi Alba 911″: 0 patents.
    No patents have matched your query

    Results of Search in US Patents Text Collection db for:
    “Sahi Alba 912″: 0 patents.
    No patents have matched your query

    I decided to perform the same query on the trademark applications at the same website and received the same results as above for my query.

    Intrigue had set in by this point, so I did the obvious and went to the TESS or trademark quick search database and typed in “Salba” and received a host of “Live” as well as “dead” records as a response to my query. For the word Salba for example, the results were for a Toronto Ontario company.

    As the Trademark aspects really don’t interest me because I am not after the Marketing information but the Botanical science aspects, then I went on to other topics I had pending on my list.

    I am just putting this information up here in the hopes that you Leisure Guy or the few other knowledgeable contributors you have on your blog, might point me to the Botanical science that confirms that the Peruvian White seed is a unique seed in itself as previously claimed.

    I really am not interested in the St. Michael Hospital (Ontario, Canada) study information as it was confirmed by Phone that the initial results were from the standard black and white seeds and not specifically from white seeds as some web sites claim. Also many of these “type of studies” are sponsored by interested parties and therefore tend to be somewhat biased.

    What I am really looking for is hard BOTANICAL science.

    Can someone please point me in the right direction ?

    Thanks and best regards

    Field Operations
    chiaseedgrowers.com

    Nick

    22 November 2009 at 12:34 pm

  248. In response to Jacobo: Blog Entry – 22 November 2009 at 1:17 am

    Hi Jacobo;

    You are welcome to buy seeds directly from us as we are growers but I certainly recommend that you try to purchase seeds that come directly from your region. This will save you the custom brokerage and shipping costs. I did a quick Google search for you and turned up the following:

    http://www.nicaliving.com/node/11289

    Genetics of Qualitative Traits in Domesticated Chia (Salvia …
    Since F2 inflorescences from both growing conditions were thoroughly dried … Parental accession JC09001 from Nicaragua produced only dark-seeded plants, …
    jhered.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/93/1/52

    Go to the first link and once there, scroll down to the comments and go to the comment of – Submitted by fyl on Thu, 2007/12/27 – 07:21.

    Here, FYL mentions that Chia seed can be bought in your native Nicaragua in bulk. plan on sowing at least a hectare or more as a pilot project, first. If you want more info you can contact me directly at n.watson@chiaseedgrowers.com What I can tell you here, as previously mentioned on this blog site by a very astute submitter is that ” Location, location and again, location…” is the key to a top quality high value, successful crop.

    Your going to get a lot of different information – sometimes confusing or contradictory and I really wish there were more field researchers than the two current one’s that are quoted and sited repeatedly

    Nick

    22 November 2009 at 2:00 pm

  249. In Nicaragua just visit your local grocery store – that is where I got mine. Top quality seed at very low prices.

    The Future

    22 November 2009 at 3:32 pm

  250. Nick:

    If you haven’t already, check out my comment from March 24th. I tracked down quite a bit of information about Salba’s patents (or lack thereof). They haven’t patented anything specific to Peruvian-grown chia, and in fact they haven’t been *granted* any patents at all, at least not as of March. All I could find is an *application* for a patent for using chia in specific formulations to treat specific medical conditions. As far I can tell, that patent application does not mention the origin of the chia, nor the genotype or cultivar or varietal. So it isn’t a patent application for Peruvian chia, nor for Salba. Just chia in general. (Salva Hispanica L.) To be clear, though I think they’re being very deceptive about this, they clearly have a lot of hands-on experience with chia, so there is a chance that there’s substance to their claims…. or they might just be fairly convincing scam artists. :)

    It does appear that some specific clinical research has been done using Salba, but it wasn’t comparative between Salba and other chia, but between Salba and completely different plants like flax.

    It looks like one of the people doing the most field research is Ricardo Ayerza. In comments above by margaret and by me you can find a few links to some of his papers. Since you’re actually growing the stuff though, I’m guessing you’ve already looked into his work.

    Ben

    22 November 2009 at 5:50 pm

  251. (Posting this in a separate comment so that LeisureGuy can easily delete it if desired.)

    jesus wept:

    I don’t know if you’re still around, but a while ago you were asking about organic chia, and you asked me to tell you the site I work for. As it happens, we’ve been linked by various people multiple times on this page already, but hopefully from context you can tell that it wasn’t me or any other employee posting those links. Anyway, my employer is NutsOnline, and we sell organic chia seeds as well as several other chia products (including chia flour). We like to think we’ve got some of the best prices available, but I’m going to stop before this sounds too much like an advertisement. :)

    The topic that “jesus wept” and I were discussing was how to be trust that an organic offering is really organic… and I don’t have a great answer for that other than the USDA/CCOF paper trail (which I can provide access to in the case of our particular products). “jesus wept,” if you’re still around, would you care to critique our page in this regard? If you’d like to avoid cluttering this thread, I can be emailed at ben@ followed by the domain name of the site linked in the previous paragraph.

    Hopefully it is clear from all my previous comments on this thread that I’m trying to stay neutral and honest about all of this. I’m primarily concerned with the actual health value of these foods. (Like I’ve said before, my company sells lots of other stuff and isn’t specifically focused on chia; as such, it would not be in our best interest to lie or scam anyone just to make a few short term bucks… we’d rather have customers that trust us.)

    Ben

    22 November 2009 at 6:26 pm

  252. Ben:

    Thanks for referring to the March thread. No, I did not have a chance to read these threads, as I managed to read up to about February 2009 where I stopped, late one night. Sounds like you experienced the same “Cul de Sac’s” I refer to above in my SALBA Patent searches.

    My objective opinion is that I have to give credit to “Salba” as a commercial brand of Salvia Hispanica L. They did a great job in marketing their product and certainly credit should be given where credit is do.

    My subjective opinion falls far short in terms of praise but I am certainly not going to go down that road as it’s been hashed out here so much. I will say that when one chooses to lie and deceive and cheat in this world (I am speaking of humans in general) then there must be an underlying reason why. In my humble opinion, it usually stems from low self esteem and a lack of confidence in oneself. I suggest that this observation might apply to the Salba brand or it’s creators.

    Funny thing is that their strategy has been repeated in history of the Human race, hasn’t it ? Various empires have claimed to have created the superior or the new master race ! They always seem to go down in flames crashing and burning. ” The truth will set you free, still a good product I am sure and if people feel comfortable to pay $30-$50 dllars a pound at least they are taking a wonderful product in Chia.

    Certainly, I believe, commendations should go out to W. Coates and R. Ayerza for all their work both in field and later analysis in the 1990’s and early 2000’s. Recently though, I have felt rather disillusioned by their referrals to previous studies, they seem to be updating studies from the past with nothing really new coming out. Also, I am a little dubious of the most recent 2009 papers as they are being paid for them, W Coates by the MLM “Mila” brand and R. Ayerza’s position at Chia Corp.

    Still, if you review their information in general terms and not as “gospel” if you excuse the expression, then I think they are great and we are lucky to have them researching Chia. I do just wish they would broaden their spectrum. I haven’t seen them around here at all considering we are growing in the Cradle of the SH-L ethnobotanical origins.

    Thanks for all your patience and great comments.

    Nick

    22 November 2009 at 8:40 pm

  253. I think I can help in regards to the Organic labeling comments you made above. We have been growing various health related ancient crops for a little over 10 years now and export in bulk the world over.

    The USDA Organic sticker approval can be had from a host of 3rd party certifiers for a rather stiff fee. The USDA’s NOP program does not certify, so the the 3rd party certifiers would inspect and approve any of the following three: 1. The fields 2. The processing facility 3. The warehousing. Yes, you can be Organic certified in the fields, or just in your processing part or also just warehousing, the consumer label they issue does not distinguish between the three.

    We could certify 10 acres of the 180 we have this year, get the Organic certificate and put it on our labels. In our industry (growing) it’s a well known saying from USA clients that say ” You Just have to certify the one field” Take the popular company supervising growers in Chile, Argentina or Bolivia (never can get a straight answer where they buy) They actually have their processing center certified organic, HACCP, ISO whatever and so on, that’s all they need. I can go on and on but I don’t want to be redundant. nor bore everyone.

    Ben, I have heard nothing but good comments about the site you referred to above. Even LG has recommended it and I respect his opinion, your comments seem unbiased as far as my opinion is concerned.

    Recent events in the USA have shown that Political correctness might be a little overstated and a little self expression and opinions hopefully develop an healthy and educative debate. Long Live all the Chia in this world wherever it comes from !

    Nick

    22 November 2009 at 9:03 pm

  254. I just started to read the difference with Salba and Chia… and I fell on our TV station webpage talking about this seed. Have a look. It explains to you what Salba really is made out of:

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071115/salba_071115/20071115/

    after reading all your comments, i am more confused.

    I guess I will have to do more research.
    ciao for now
    lanny

    lanny

    1 December 2009 at 9:04 pm

  255. here is where i buy all my vitamins and they do have Chia and a lot cheaper than you all posted. It is straight from the manufacture so you dont pay the middle man,

    http://www.puritan.com/chia-301/chia-seed-019106?np=1&searchterm=chia&rdcnt=1

    lanny

    2 December 2009 at 7:05 am

  256. A mixture of the dark and light seeds offer more benefits. The dark seeds contain a few nutrients not found in the light seeds.

    Try Jappel Organics Chia!
    We have hundreds of loyal clients who purchase regularly.

    http://www.JappelOrganics.com

    There is also a new Green Organic Blog at http://www.JappelOrganics.com/Blog

    Jason

    2 December 2009 at 7:15 am

  257. Whole Foods now carries chia seed in 8 oz packets. They’re from Navitas Naturals, a company in Novato CA that packages quite a few nutritionally interesting foods. Click the link.

    LeisureGuy

    2 December 2009 at 7:57 am

  258. Hi !

    Speaking as a humble but hopefully savvy grower, I wanted to point out that Chia seed is not manufactured but grown. The PP link from Lanny (thanks !) above mentions direct from the Manufacturer, but in my opinion they would be considered as the retail packager.

    Our Chia seed is grown, harvested and then cleaned of the husks, twigs etc that the Combine harvester cannot separate from the seed. Once cleaned we thermal sanitize it and then bulk package in 20 kg sacks for export to various countries where most of our customers (wholesalers) resell to retailers or package directly for final retail sales.

    Although we would love to supply direct to the consumer, we need to focus on priorities that for us, involve growing top quality Chia for the world market.

    Since we grow hundreds of thousands of Pounds of Chia seed a year, we sell by the metric tons and therefore appreciate the large brokers that either resell or package in retail and sell to various large chain supermarkets or sell directly on the internet to the consumers under their own private labels.

    I would also like to mention that there are growers, that for one reason or another do not sell all their harvested Chia seed from one season to the next. Usually this is due to the fact that they do not meet certain industry specifications, like Oils, Fiber and Protein etc. What happens to this Chia seed is that it is dumped on the open market for wholesale bidders and then resold.

    Chia seed has an excellent 3 year shelf life due to the levels of Antioxidants it carries in the seed (polyphenols, flavonols etc) . When a grower, broker or retailer gets close to that half way marker of 18 months, it is worth selling it cheaper to get it out of the warehouse and free up money to invest in fresher longer shelf life product. I guess my point in all this is that cheaper – I like to use the term “less expensive” – does not always mean better.

    I really liked the way Puritan pride puts realistic Nutritional fact sheet information on their Chia seed right up front on their website, thanks for the link Lanny. for me it means they took the trouble to do a nutritional analysis and that for one shows integrity. granted the levels of Oils, fibers Proteins and ALA are not the highest but still within the acceptable norms.

    Thanks for reading !

    Nick

    2 December 2009 at 11:11 am

  259. We could certify 10 acres of the 180 we have this year, get the Organic certificate and put it on our labels. In our industry (growing) it’s a well known saying from USA clients that say ” You Just have to certify the one field” Take the popular company supervising growers in Chile, Argentina or Bolivia (never can get a straight answer where they buy) They actually have their processing center certified organic, HACCP, ISO whatever and so on, that’s all they need. I can go on and on but I don’t want to be redundant. nor bore everyone.

    Tibetan

    2 December 2009 at 5:36 pm

  260. Nick:

    I think “Tibetan” just directly excerpted your comment… maybe a spam-bot?… but it reminds me that I wanted to ask you:

    You wrote: “it’s a well known saying from USA clients that say ‘You Just have to certify the one field'”… Certainly we wouldn’t say that to our supplier, but this worries me. Does this mean that the certifiers are not being thorough? How can we, as a USA-based online retailer, be sure that the product we’re buying to resell is truly organic then? Our certification is through CCOF, one of the oldest and most trustworthy certifiers as far as I can tell, does that help?

    Thanks in advance for any advice you might have!

    Ben

    3 December 2009 at 6:28 pm

  261. Ben

    I think you are right to question and that’s great that you have! Absolutely, after all, as you very well know, you are the final issuer of the product to the consumer and the one carrying the heaviest burden
    .
    Essentially in your case, the onus is on you the private label/retailer to assure that the Organic labeled products you offer, come from verifiable sources with trace back documents. I certainly did not intend to create controversy or worry but it’s an important topic and it’s great to question, as you did.

    CCOF, certainly is a stand up association and in my opinion, leaders in promoting organic certification in California, so sure, to answer your concerns, it helps to be allied with them. Now, how can you be assured? Wow, that’s a million dollar question! It’s really the trust between your supplier and you and the back up support documents available really.

    What a lot of companies are starting to do is, where before they depended on their Raw Ingredient supplier or sourcing broker to do the background checking. Now, these companies, both large and small are going straight to the farms for their ingredients.

    We are getting a lot of inquiries from large companies recently where before, I could not even get a Purchasing guy to call us back and now they are initiating calls to us and visiting our fields, processing and packing areas and assuring themselves of the supply chain being consistent and clean from farm to their warehouse.

    So as not to take so much space up here, I will contact you directly with some very interesting details on organic and Chia.

    hope this helps

    Nick

    4 December 2009 at 1:51 am

  262. i just ordered chia on nutsonline–thanks leisureguy–i accidentaly came across this page–and one article i read my dr. wayne was that chia seeds dont get any kinds of bugs around them growing so they dont spray them with pestisides–and it will not go into seeds–so it seems that chia is whereever you get it cheaper is better–

    sweetcali

    17 December 2009 at 5:19 pm

  263. you know common sense always and intuition is always right–i feel like is a newly found product and hey guys if you found out that wouldnt you want to package it 10 times higher and have a scientific so called –researchers and then package it to whole foods–i would say –yes
    i use my common intuition and if the aztecs used to walk and pick-them -they didn;t warry about white or black kind and in my badge of chia seed i got–from the mexican grocery store–only 70 cents–not too big though–i say if aztecs the greatest civil used it–just didnt care what color–and my badge had some brownish–white–that makes it more coloreful–
    i am gono now sprout it–as i know sprouting it will taste yummy-and make all kinds of shakes–tnx for all your comments i read few and learned alot—

    sweetcali

    17 December 2009 at 5:26 pm

  264. naturalremedeez.com has it at 6.29 lbs–let me know of cheaper sites–nutsoline is 6.99

    sweetcali

    17 December 2009 at 5:37 pm

  265. sweetcali,
    What Dr. Wayne has said makes no sense. I have grown chia and while there are much less susceptible to bugs that other plants there ARE some things that eat the leaves. He also admits he has absolutely NO IDEA what the farmers do to fertilize the crop – which means they could add anything to any part. He makes a statement that ground based chemicals will not find their way into the seed. Sounds cute but there is no evidence of that whatsover. An his comments on the ripoff chia site (10 times the going rate) state that essentially organic is a waste of money. This guy is involved in some very dubious activity. Buyer beware.

    The Future

    18 December 2009 at 2:57 am

  266. Hi All

    I am a regular user of Salba. After reading this blog from the start I am sure that I would be able to make my decision on “What to Buy” in an efficient manner.
    I would like to thank you all for this enlightning discussion on Salba/Chia and we should all be grateful to Leisureguy who has put up this blog.

    Thanks!

    Jasmeet

    17 January 2010 at 9:02 pm

  267. Hi All,

    I’ve read through almost all the entries and they were extremely informative. However there is one thing I am still not sure of. In India & Pakistan, there is a summer drink called ‘falooda’ which uses gelatinous seeds that seem very similar to Chia – however they are commonly referred to as ‘takmaria/sabja/falooda/tapioca seeds’. Those seeds are only recommended to be eaten in very hot summer days because it is extremely cooling for the body and can actually cause joint pain if eaten too often.

    Does anybody on this blog know the difference between chia seeds and falooda seeds? I think they have a different nutritional profile but I am not exactly sure. From what I’ve read, there are no side effects of eating too much chia.

    Thanks in advance for anyone who replies:

    Some information on Falooda and different seed groups:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falooda

    http://www.prlog.org/10205567-healthy-recipe-for-fiveseed-salad-dressing.html

    Maryam

    23 February 2010 at 4:34 pm

  268. Re: Maryam post

    Lasi is probably better drink as it’s at least Yogurt but I have had the Tapioca seed drink in lahore when i was there last year in June (very hot) and yes, it was quite refreshing.

    Here’s the info on Tapioca and then the Chia. I took the info from the link below in the event you want much more data.

    Tapioca seed :
    Glycemic load: 93 (a little less than pure honey)
    Inflammation Factor: minus 703 (strongly inflammatory)

    Chia seed:
    Glycemic load: 1 (can’t really get any lower than 1)
    Inflammation Factor: 77 (mildly Anti- Inflammatory)

    Tapioca is basically devoid in everything healthy except a good source of Iron 13% DV and a whopping 43% Carbohydrates with no fiber. If you need to gain weight then this is a great source.
    Link: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5733/2

    Chia is considered as good whole food having dietary fiber, protein, omega and various Phyto nutrients. The carbohydrate is 4% DV so a lot less than the Tapioca . Calcium is high at 18% DV
    Link: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3061/2

    Hope this helps and having been around India and Pakistan a bit I can never get over the fact of how thin and healthy most of them keep themselves with all the fats, sugars and carbs they eat but it just goes to show you that a well rounded diet with lot’s of veggies and moderation being the key one can stay thin and healthy !

    Nick

    nick

    24 February 2010 at 6:57 am

  269. Nick,

    Thanks for all the info, I see that you directed Maryam to http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3061/2, but I see in an earlier post that you have had several labs done on your chia, where can we see the results of the Labs?

    Thanks,
    Tom

    Tom

    24 February 2010 at 7:25 pm

  270. Re: Tom Post

    Hi Tom !

    Actually no one has asked until your posting. Thanks for asking ! We have been super slow on developing our Aztec Black Chia seed website (linked to my post name, here) but we are getting there slowly. You might wonder, why would we take so long if our business is to grow and sell Chia seed ?

    Actually I have a confession to make, we are also growers and processors, packers and exporters of Nopal cactus, http://www.nopalexport.com and we have a world wide distribution system. Most of our clients for our Chia seed are from our established customer base on the Nopal prickly pear cactus growing operation.

    All our wholesale customers have the lab analysis results available to them of course and we do plan on inserting a page on our http://www.chiaseedgrowers.com with a copy of the results on the actual Lab letterheads. If you wish, I will be happy to send you a copy of the results that we had done at silliker and Brunswick Laboratories on the ORAC w/polyphenols, FRAP and TEAC and total Oils content analysis.

    Just visit our Chia website, click on the contact us link and send me a message please. Let me know who you are and your interest and I will be happy to send you a PDF copy.

    Thanks again for asking and I will mention to our web designer to speed that page design up a bit.

    All the best

    Nick

    nick

    25 February 2010 at 8:01 pm

  271. Maryam,
    What you are calling tapioca seed has nothing to do with true tapioca, the plant that Nick has provided information on. It is actually tukmaria seed, which is also call basil seed.

    Basil seed is closely related to chia seed and has been used, since ancient times, throughout SE Asia, India and Pakistan, to make a drink. See this post on my website: http://www.chiativity.org/2009/03/holy-basil-batm.html

    I know of no studies of the nutritional value of basil seed, but expect that it has similar quantities of omega-3s and fiber.

    margaret

    26 February 2010 at 9:38 am

  272. I’ve been taking Salba for some time, don’t know if it is good or not. Question, if whole seeds are passing thru, are you getting the benefit? Is it better absorbed ground. Thanks

    Tucker

    2 March 2010 at 7:37 pm

  273. For me chia and salba is almost just the same and i can say that salba is just the white chia seed. Salba offers more expensive than other chia seed store. Like latin merchants and hidalgofoods.

    Anonymous

    17 March 2010 at 2:46 pm

  274. I have been buying Salba for years but noticed a steady decline in the quality of the Salba seeds over the last 6 months. I normally purchase through my local store and through salbastore.com but both of these retailers seem to sell the same product distributed by a company called Core Naturals. They have received some bad reviews lately (see http://www.complaintsboard.com and http://www.ripoffreport.com) Does anyone know where I can find a different supplier of this product?

    Health Nut

    31 March 2010 at 9:10 pm

  275. I am going to humbly beat Leisure guy to the punch here…if I may, i have heard good comments from a few clients on the nuts on line.com Chia seed service great price and heard they have good quality. I think with shipping it comes to about $15.00 – $16.00 a Lb. …chiaseedgrowers.com offers a pound for 14.95 with shipping already included.

    There is no scientific evidence that shows that white seeds are any better than dark seeds. None ! There is basic common sense evidence though that a darker grain or seed has better Phyto nutrients. Flour, rice beans etc…. not in all cases but with fruits this tends to be the case as well…

    For goodness sake though…quit paying an arm and a leg for a trademarked product that borders an MLM scam regarding pricing …It costs about $1.00 a pound to grow Chia seed commercially depending on where and how you grow it. Of course everyone down the line has to make some money but the cost of Salba is a scam if I ever saw one.

    nick

    31 March 2010 at 10:15 pm

  276. Dear Health Nut,

    In reference to your post from the 31st of March, please refer to my post from the 25th of August 2009. The only comment I can add is that the only company in the US selling actual Salba seeds from Peru is Salba Smart. For further information you can contact them at http://www.salbasmart.com.

    Regards,

    Caroline

    Caroline

    5 April 2010 at 11:01 am

  277. I just re-read the Salba sales rep’s comment that:

    “We’ve never said that there isn’t good generic chia out there, we’ve only been supporting all along what salba has been PROVEN to do, as a buyer of nutritional products isn’t that why you go through the trouble of paying a little more for organic, or standardized or clinically proven? We believe our product is worth it, and based on repeat customer orders – so do they!”

    It bears reiterating, their product is 10 times the price of other chia seeds.

    It is NOT organic.

    It is NOT proven to have anything that regular chia does not.

    So paying “a little more” is patently (excuse the pun) false, as is the comments about standardization and clinically proven. Can anyone show me a single document comparing “salba” to generic chia and showing it as superior? Not to date.

    And Wayne Coates comments on their website about organic being a waste of money…about no controls in place for the fertilizers growers use….no evidence that these chemicals don’t make it into the seed….and they nerve to charge 10 times the price?

    Save your money people.

    The Future

    5 April 2010 at 12:32 pm

  278. Ok, I have to put my two cents in on this as I am really growing quite tired of the Salba from here and the Salba from there arguments.

    As clearly stated many times on this Blog, SALBA is a trademark not a special variety or species of Chia seed. If people don’t understand that then please go to http://www.uspto.gov (United States Patent and Trademark office) to see the proof !

    On the home page click on the 2nd option of the middle column where the “SEARCH MARKS” link is. When at “Search Marks” page, click on “New User Form Search (Basic) ” when at that form enter the term SALBA in the Search Term box and click on Search Query and that is it!

    You will see a host of live and dead trademarks all saying Salba and click on the Trademark # 78138501or where you see the live one for Salba.

    The owner of the trademark is a Canadian company, they do not own the Chia seed it is just a trademark BRAND NAME for a edible oily seed that’s all. Here:

    Word Mark SALBA
    Goods and Services: IC 031. US 001 046. G & S: Nutrient dense unprocessed edible seeds rich in omega3. FIRST USE: 20050316. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050316

    (REGISTRANT) SALBA RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT INC. CORPORATION ONTARIO 84 MARMION AVENUE TORONTO ONTARIO M5M 1Y3

    Does it say anywhere that it is Chia ???? Salvia Hispanica L ?????? ummmm….no ! it just says seed edible seed rich in Omega3. They don’t say it’s a new version of anything or a specially designed seed or anything. It’s Chia, that’s all it is but it does not even say so but their marketing sure does. If it was so special where the GMO ? where’s the patent ???? No patent exists because they abandoned the application as soon as they applied for it. They submitted an application, obviously impossible to Patent and go around claiming that they submitted it, big deal. It costs about 300 dollars to submit an application.

    Then if you want, go to SALBA SMART further down the page referred to above and this is what they trademarked

    Word Mark SALBA SMART

    Goods and Services IC 030. US 046. G & S: SNACK FOODS, NAMELY, CORN-BASED TORTILLA CHIPS, CORN-BASED AND FLOUR-BASED TORTILLAS IN VARIOUS FLAVORS, TOSTADA SHELLS, TACO SHELLS, EXTRUDED SNACKS, NAMELY, CORN SNACKS AND WHEAT SNACKS, PRETZELS AND DIPPING SAUCES. FIRST USE: 20060515. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20060515

    Hmmm….does it say anything about mixing Chia or anything in these products…???? nope !!! SALBA SMART is a name that’s all it is. Corn based, Flour based junk. No mention of a seed or oil or Omega 3.

    The other point and sorry for being so detailed and finicky is that the studies done by this Dr. Vuksan guy at St. Michael’s hospital were paid for by SALBA and yes, they used SALVIA HISPANICA L. Plain ole Chia !!!! No proper research study or researcher for that matter would put a trademark on an actual research study headline. It obviously means that it’s a biased study to begin with and paid by the company to promote their trademark brand. Where the Science ? Where the double blind analysis ?

    I believe that a person on this Blog actually called St. Michael’s to investigate and found that they did indeed confirm that the standard Black and White seed (what I call salt and pepper) was the one actually used in the study.

    Anyway, I am all for trademarking and branding if one wants to protect and project a name, hey, go for it! Just don’t go around claiming to have a super potent seed and suggest that the seed is so much higher than Salmon when that in itself is a lie, because there is no EPA or DHA Omega EFT in Chia to speak of and by the same token their is little ALA in Salmon so the points of comparison are ridiculous, how can you in all honesty compare Salmon to Chia ??? Do you all in marketing really believe that consumers are so stupid ??? well I guess you do.

    Sorry to have ranted on so much but I get passionate about Cost vs Benefit and really, Salba I am sure is a great Chia seed product and if people want to pay $50.00 a Pound then that is their choice but please don’t go around lying about other Chia seed in your advertising like you recently did in the NPI Center newsletter, claiming that all Chia except SalBa was essentially garbage. If you dish out insults then be prepared to get Dished back !@

    Not so Humbly (this time)

    Nick

    nick

    5 April 2010 at 2:09 pm

  279. Oh, While I am on it and in the event that someone out there wants to waste their time trying to convince me or argue the pristine nature that the St. Michael’s “Single blind Cross referenced” study was done under. Or rebuke me for attacking such a noble institution and researchers, then it as simple as going to SALBA SMART http://www.salbasmart.com/research.html

    Scroll down to the big and impressive Purple very blurry study with the St. Michael’s logo on the left, ZOOM IN and on the bottom right box where it says “Acknowledgments” is the evidence that the research was basically bought and paid for by ” SALBA SMART ” SALBA RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT INC. CORPORATION and AGROPECUARIA EL VALLE S.A.

    Funny that when I do a search on the second company AGROPECUARIA EL VALLE S.A. it is nowhere linked to PERU but actually another Wayne Coates and Ricardo Arayza project in Northwestern Argentina. here is the link on that company: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1996/v3-045.html

    Here is a blurb:

    The project started in 1991 with an agreement between Partners of the Americas Inc., a non-profit organization headquartered in Washington DC, and Agropecuaria El Valle S.A., an agricultural enterprise with offices in Buenos Aires and Catamarca, Argentina. This technical cooperation was made possible through the Farmer to Farmer program, financed by the Congress of the United States as a part of the 1990-95 Farm Bill (Public Law 480), and the Agency for International Development (USAID).

    Funny how no mention of Peru, I am willing to bet that they did use the salt and pepper black and white seed common from this region of Argentina and Bolivia.

    Where does it all ever end, the Salba Saga just goes on and on and on …

    nick

    5 April 2010 at 3:19 pm

  280. well said. eventually people’s brain will catch up with the truth as their wallet runs empty.

    Anonymous

    5 April 2010 at 3:49 pm

  281. Oh Boy, You all are not going to believe what I just happened to come across. After working most of the afternoon I decided to take a second look at the information I found on Salba’s dear Dr. Vladimir Vuksan of the renowned St Michael’s study on SALBA.

    All those that swear by the St Michael’s SALBA study please break out your Kleenex box your going to need it. Those that were touting SALBA as being just a trademark brand of regular Chia seed, please try to refrain from rubbing salt on any open wounds noticed after this post.

    It appears and their is definitive hard evidence below that our Dear Dr. Vladimir did infact realize that SALBA was just average run of the mill Chia seed or Salvia hispanica L, he had the nerve to tout SALBA in his study and then went on to Patent his study findings to treat Diabetes II the main focus of the Salba study, the only problem is that he liked Chia !

    In utter disbelief ? look for yourself here is the link to his 2008 Patent and he is listed as the sole inventor….Boy I bet that this affront on the Dr’s part had Salba’s blood boiling, if they are actually aware of this invention by their own, that touts their SALBA brand as being a world apart !

    Here is the link: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0305190.html

    The entire study information and his detailed findings are there for all to see (thats the problem with Patenting it’s all public) and he makes ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION of SALBA but makes consistent mention of Chia Seed and Salvia Hispanica L all throughout the patent.

    For those that don’t want to go to the full Patent at the link above here’s a little teaser –

    Inventors: Vuksan, Vladimir (Toronto, CA)

    Publication Date:12/11/2008
    Filing Date:06/17/2008

    SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

    “The present inventor has determined that the addition of seeds Salvia Hispanica L., (Chia) consumed alone or incorporated into the food to a diet of an animal enhances conventional treatment outcomes, assessed primarily by blood glucose, insulin, insulin sensitivity, diastolic and systolic blood pressure, and secondarily inflammation, coagulation, fibrinolysis and endothelial function”
    (public information & not copyright, from freepatentsonline.com)

    How very very interesting, comments anyone ?

    nick

    5 April 2010 at 8:13 pm

  282. my son just asked me to check into chia seeds for him. i went to my local health store and got info on”the aztec ancient secret” from healthy origins -white chia seed. is anyone informed on this brand? are there any better?
    thanks, sherry

    sherry

    7 April 2010 at 4:58 pm

  283. I live in Ottawa, Canada. Where can I order/buy inexpensive chia seeds? I cannot afford to buy Selba.

    Thanks

    Farah

    11 April 2010 at 2:22 pm

  284. Update:
    I went on upayanaturals.com, a Canadian based supplier. They presently have the chia seeds on sale @$9.99 a pound, plus until tomorrow (April 12/2010) shipping in Ontario is free.
    I just ordered 15 pounds.

    Cheers

    Farah

    11 April 2010 at 2:54 pm

  285. Well, I’m thoroughly confused by all these comments! Either way, I took the advice of the complaintboard/ripoffreport and called a supplier of Core Naturals. They confirmed that Core was a customer but yet the supplier only sells Chia products? I was TOTALLY shocked!!!!!!! All I know is that I will never buy a Core Naturals product again. Maybe I will try Salba Smart but their product better not look like Core Naturals does. As for Chia, no thanks! I have already made the commitment to pay a premium to eat healthy, buying the lesser priced, lesser quality Chia isnt a risk I want to take. Good Luck everyone and thanks for responding!

    Health Nut

    15 April 2010 at 10:54 pm

  286. Health Nut,

    There are only 2 types of salvia hispanica – organic and non-organic. As a discerning customer, buy organic. Don’t fall for the hype that is allowing people to sell the same product at 10 times the going rate. Organic can be bought for $10 a pound. Non-organic for $5. Better yet, grow your own…

    The Future

    16 April 2010 at 5:32 am

  287. Future;

    Well said ! Especially the word “types” In the hopes that “Health nut” may understand: There is only Salvia Hispanica L and the colors can be White seeds, Dark Seeds or if you like mixed Seeds of Black and White.

    Health Nut,

    We at Chia Seed Growers are a large commercial grower. Out of every 100 SHL Plants growing we get about 2-3 plants that have all white seeds. This is because of the geographic region and altitude we grow at. Other growers in Argentina, Australia and Northern Mexico have a higher percentage of White seed plants like about 10-15%

    If you would like to pay $40.00 – $50.00 a Lb for white seeds, I will be more than happy to buy them from growers up North that separate them from the dark and sell them to you for that price. The white seeds are actually less or equal value here at the grower level.

    As said by many people on this Blog, There is absolutely no scientific evidence that the white seeds you mention have a higher Phyto Nutrient value than dark seeds therefore justifying a higher price.

    Unfortunately you have become entrenched in a product “marketing web” and in order to justify the many hundreds of dollars spent on a product that you could of been purchased for a whole lot less, you are blind to the idea that “less expensive is equally good” To each his own, i guess.

    To suggest that I have nothing better to do is in a sense correct, so thank you for your comments, Our company is a Chia grower and one of my responsibilities is to educate the consumer on Chia without all the hype. If you do not understand my postings, well you can’t fault me for trying !

    By the way, the title of this blog is Salba=Chia seed. That means that SALBA is Chia just like 1=1, that is the title and my posting have been title specific.

    nick

    16 April 2010 at 8:51 am

  288. @ Health Nut: Did it ever occur to you that Core Naturals might have more than one supplier? Probably not.

    LeisureGuy

    16 April 2010 at 1:24 pm

  289. They probably do but it only takes one supplier to confirm the identity of a corrupt distributor. And if the distributor does it once, then they will do it again! What really occurred to me was that my last insert just got suddenly removed… What happened to it LeisureGuy?

    Health Nut

    16 April 2010 at 9:42 pm

  290. It was too abusive, so I removed it. This is a courteous blog.

    I don’t quite understand why you are saying that Core Naturals is a corrupt distributor. What exactly is it that they have done wrong?

    LeisureGuy

    17 April 2010 at 6:11 am

  291. Hi All;

    Re: Salba = Chia

    In my continuing research for the origins of the white seed that the brand name (trademark) SALBA used I wanted to share an intriguing piece of information on SALBA’s origin.

    I was searching Mexican Biology and Chemistry data bases yesterday and I found a posting by an Agricultural Engineer (his post is about 8 or 9 down at:

    http://www.engormix.com/bajo_respeto_propiedad_intelectual_s_articulos_2069_AGR.htm

    that refers to a situation that took place back in 1991 that might shed a lot of light on how the Northern Mexican Chia white seed – Salvia Hispanica L – made it to the Peruvian low lands in 1991 and became trademarked as SALBA.

    In the Posting the Agro Engineer (AE) complains of having been robbed of his life’s work of 21 years by two unscrupulous scientists (his words) that showed up in the town of Acatic Jalisco, Mexico back in 1991 and upon seeing the White seed that grew there, took it upon themselves to take this seed and try and patent the variety. (never successfully patented as SALBA & SALBA SMART claim)

    It is very interesting that the two people the A.E. mentions are Ricardo Areyza (Univ. of Arizona researcher and coauthor of “Chia the miracle seed”) and Armando Armeya from the company “Agropecuaria del Valle” in Northwest Argentina.

    His blog posting is mainly a complaint about Intellectual property rights in the Biology and Chemistry fields and specific about the white seed that they took as eventually becoming the trademark SALBA.

    I mention these guys in a blog posting further up, they eventually got into a huge Law suit because Ricardo A. was basically two timing, working for the U of A and the Dell Valle people at the same time and I guess working with Wayne Coates also.

    It’s a long trail of double dealing almost fit for a John Le Carre spy Novel and so as to be on topic, essentially and the bottom line is that (assuming the AE is telling the truth) the SALBA original seed stock did in fact come from northern Mexico’s Salvia Hispanica L seed.

    I have a lot more information on this but the above is the gist of it. On another foot note, if you go to http://www.domaintools.com and type in salba.com you will see that the website was registered in 1999 by Core naturals in Florida. If you go further and check for Salba Smart it was registered in 2006.

    What I am getting at is, SALBA actually came much later as the trademark was only issued 5-6 years ago. Wayne Coates and Ricardo were planting and researching Chia and reintroducing Chia as far back as 1994. Of course Chia has been taken for thousands of years so if anybody get’s the medal for Chia it should be Mother Nature of course

    Nick

    http://www.engormix.com/bajo_respeto_propiedad_intelectual_s_articulos_2069_AGR.htm

    nick

    17 April 2010 at 7:41 am

  292. http://whois.domaintools.com/salba.com proves that the company Core naturals owns the domain name registration for http://www.salba.com and registered it in 1999. They are the first to have registered the domain name just prior to the trademark being issued.

    So calling Core Naturals corrupt would kind of be like calling the SALBA trademark corrupt, would it not ?

    Just my humble opinion

    nick

    17 April 2010 at 7:55 am

  293. Nick, What does owning the domain name http://www.salba.com have to do with owning the trademark? One minute you work for Chia Seed Growers and the next you defend Core Naturals and Salba? Which company do you work for? Or perhaps both!

    Health Nut

    21 April 2010 at 11:38 pm

  294. Dear health Nut;

    Boo…!

    Did I scare you ? I am attempting to be the Aztec black Chia seed and White Chia seed Shaman spook… !

    Thanks for the nice “intrigue” comments but unfortunately I am not the illustrious spy/spook that you imagine I am.

    I am just plain old Nick, Grower and wholesale purveyor of Aztec Black Chia seed, that’s all. I live and work in Cuernavaca, Morelos Mexico where the ancient Salvia Hispanica L strain of pre and post -Aztec empire Chia has been ethno-botanically shown to have originated from.

    I am not a middle man nor am I a purveyor of white seed Salvia Hipanica L. My mission focus is on providing the Chia distribution industry with the most up to date information on the origins and Phyto nutrient values on the White, Grey and Dark black Chia seeds. In my personal opinion, I believe that consuming any color Chia seed is better than consuming none at all.

    We sell what we grow in Metric ton quantities and really very little Chia seed retail, we do however custom pack and private label for various companies world wide. Our main or principle crop is not Chia but the high mountain volcanic soil grown Nopal cactus – http://www.nopalexport.com – in this whole food product we consider ourselves the leaders in the industry.

    Hope this helps you to understand who I am since you suggested I might be someone else…Geez, for that matter…who knows….? I might be the moderator of this Blog ? Wooooo……….Boo !

    nick

    22 April 2010 at 10:26 am

  295. Can you tell me who is ripping you off on your Salba at $40-$50 a pound? I’ve found the price in natural food stores for as low as $17.79 a pound. Granted this is in a nice pouch packaged for a 30 day supply, but the other chia on the shelf is only slightly less on a per pound basis.

    Of course, I can buy bulk for much cheaper, but there is no way for me to track the bulk product back to the grower since it is predominantly consolidated “commodity” product. I’ve heard rumor that you can buy bulk Salba for around $11-$13 a pound, but I have not been able to find a store in my area that carries Salba in bulk.

    Betty

    27 April 2010 at 11:16 am

  296. Today I found (non-certified) organic chia on amazon for $5 a pound (2lb).

    Naturalnews.com also sells it (non-certified organic) for $5 a pound.

    The cheapest organic I’ve found is on amazon for $4.59 a pound (5lb)

    $17.79 for non-organic is a rip off.

    The Future

    27 April 2010 at 12:33 pm

  297. Nice find Future !

    I did not do as good as you in my quick online search but I did find a shopping site with a whole bunch of different Chia seed, White, Grey and Black, Salt & Pepper etc… in retail presentations. http://www.thefind.com/beauty/detail-chia-seeds

    There are some great prices and not so great but what a selection ! Quite a good selection of White Chia seed (Generic Salba Brand type) options for around $9.00 – $11.00 a pound as well.

    For those that prefer White Chia seed as opposed to Grey or Black, I think that this would be a nice place to window shop and compare. Don’t worry about all the branding and “Trade Mark” hype, when your talking about 10 or 15 grams of Chia seed a day it really does not matter to much what color you are consuming, just consume Chia !

    Comparing Salba and Chia is like the famous Trademark “Buff_rin” to Aspirin, you might feel more comfortable buying the more expensive Trademark brand and hey, that’s fine. But as we all know in this day and age, The same Aspirin that the trade mark uses might be sold generically and less expensive under another non trademarked name, right ? We all know that all the major brands do it, it’s called third party labeling.

    Basically there are only four primary growing regions for Chia seed at the moment. Australia, Argentina-Bolivia, Mexico and to a smaller extent Peru and Columbia. Everyone has a story or what we call in marketing the “Romance” or the story that offers the “emotional” buy, edge.

    All the Chia imported into the USA comes in Bulk sacks and either consolidated in Metric Tons LTL (less than a load) or 20 ft and 40 ft containers FL’s (Full Loads)

    Once in the USA it is distributed out to wholesalers that either pack it or sell it in bulk to regional distributors that eventually pack it up and offer it retail. You don’t see all the packages of Chia that you buy saying “Packaged in Peru, or Packed in Australia or Argentina, Bolivia etc… so it all comes in consolidated or Full loads.

    The important thing is that you consume Chia seed ! Genus: Salvia Hispanica L. !!!!!

    Anonymous

    27 April 2010 at 4:56 pm

  298. oops… the above post is mine but it came in as anonymous….my apologies…

    nick

    27 April 2010 at 5:10 pm

  299. I have noticed that, not only is “LifeMax Mila” http://www.buychiagrain.com more expensive than Salba ($55/lb), but also “BenVia” (generic chia) from Northstarnutritionals http://www.northstarnutritionals.com is sold at the same price as Salba, even though Salba has 23% more Omega 3 than BenVia. Ridiculous!

    Caroline

    Caroline

    28 April 2010 at 12:31 pm

  300. Regarding the comment about changing the Sub heading text of the Blog, may I suggest changing the part where the text states:

    UPDATE: It’s only fair to note that Salba (the patented variety that really put Chia on the map)

    Should be revised because the proof of SALBA not having any Patents has been shown by just going to http://www.uspto.gov and typing in SALBA or all the weird text and number names they claim are patented. The Salba Patent claims are false by the very evidence on the above website.

    The companies that Trade Marked “SALBA” Chia seed abandoned their application to Patent because they were not accepted by the USPTO (United States Patent and Trademark office) To continue to suggest that SALBA has a Patent might be construed as disinformation.

    Mila Brand Chia powder Mix is not whole Chia seed but a combination of Chia seed and Bran. It is a product with a Matrix ingredient in order to give it a more free flowing powder texture, it is essentially not whole Chia seed and apart from Mila being a MLM company product that markets it, I don’t see where the comparison can be drawn with Salba that is a trademark brand for plain of the mill irrigated white Chia seed grown in the Peruvian lowlands

    No, I did not blend the Mila but I did have it tested at a lab. By the way, we also had the SALBA seed tested and it does not come in “highest’ in ALA Omega 3 nor in ORAC, FRAP nor TEAC Anti Oxidants for that matter.

    The comments they and other Chia distrivutors have on their websites regarding Salmon and Salba being 8 times higher in Omega 3’s is ludicrous. Salmon and other oily fish are high in EPA and DHA Omega 3’s but have very little ALA Omega 3. Chia is high in ALA Omega 3 and low in EPA and practically zero in DHA Omega 3.

    So the comparison is bizarre. What even more Bizarre is that most consumers get sucked in by that kind of marketing nonsense

    nick

    28 April 2010 at 2:56 pm

  301. Nick,

    Could you please provide your full name and contact information at Chia Seed Growers? I would like to call you and inquire about your product as well as get pricing. Thanks!

    Health Nut

    6 May 2010 at 9:39 am

  302. Hi Health Nut; !

    I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have regarding our top quality Aztec black Chia seed.

    You can either click on my name on this posting and go directly to our website or here is the link to the contact us page:

    http://www.chiaseedgrowers.com/contactus.html

    On this page you will see my complete name and either USA or Mexico direct dial phone numbers, either one is good, the USA number dials direct to here our Mexico office and I am the only one that answers that number or you can call the Mexico numbers and ask for me.

    Looking forward to your call !

    Nick

    nick

    6 May 2010 at 11:19 am

  303. Looks like Core Naturals changed their name to Ancient Naturals.

    Christopher

    11 May 2010 at 10:26 am

  304. Dear Leisure Guy,

    I have recently become aware of the wonders of the chia seed. In the interest of finding the best source for this seed, I came across your blog. There is a lot of confusing information about chia and salba. That is why I decided to look into it a bit more and to come up with a few facts to help me determine what is what. I hope this helps your viewers so they don’t have to go through hours of research.

    Patents: There is lots of confusing and misleading things in the blog.
    The fact is: Nowhere do the Salba people claim to have a patented seed. NO ONE CAN PATENT A SEED! (only Monsanto of course). What they DO say is that they have registered two varieties (Sahi Alba 911 and Sahi Alba 91). What IS patent pending is the use/claim for Salvia Hispanica L.
    Research: Again, loads of talk about this subject.

    The fact is: I looked at the research published. So far I have found, 4 peer reviewed and published papers on the positive benefits of Salba on glucose lowering effects, satiety and reduced cardiovascular risk factors in type II diabetes. Although there are a lot of papers on chia, most of them related to agronomy and animal feed, I have only found one published paper conducted on humans which found no positive effects on weight loss and disease risk factors. (see below).

    On Salba:
    Supplementation of Conventional Therapy With the Novel Grain Salba (Salvia hispanica L.) Improves Major and Emerging Cardiovascular Risk Factors inType 2 Diabetes, published by: DIABETES CARE, VOLUME 30, NUMBER 11, NOVEMBER 2007

    Reduction in postprandial glucose excursion and prolongation of satiety: possible explanation of the long-term effects of whole grain Salba (Salvia Hispanica L.), published by: The European Journal of Clinical Nutrition;
    The Effects of Escalating Quantities of Salvia hispanica L. (Salba) on Postprandial Glycemia and Appetite in Healthy Individuals, published by: The FASEB Journal. 2008;22:305.6

    Comparable Dose-Response Glucose Lowering Effect with Whole vs finely Ground, Novel Omega-3 rich Grain Salba (Salvia Hispanica L) Baked into White Bread, published by: The FASEB Journal 2008; 23: 351.7

    On Chia:
    Chia seed does not promote weight loss or alter disease risk factors in overweight adults, published by: Science Direct, Nutrition Research 29 (2009) 414-418

    Again, if you look at the papers you will see that they always use either a single a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized, crossover design or a single-blind, cross-over design. These are peer reviewed papers, published in accredited journals.

    One other interesting fact is that although the chia paper mentioned above was funded by the Nutritional Science Research Institute (NSRI), they have not put the results on their own website. What they have done is mislead readers by referring to the salba paper conducted by the University of Toronto, claiming that the research is based on chia. The truth is that the paper was done on Salba.

    Price:
    I found it very hard to pin down exact prices for chia. There are a lot of offers in stores and online. Anyway, in some cases chia was more expensive than Salba.

    The facts: There are price differences. It is up to each consumer if to decide whether the differences in the research warrant the extra cost for a non generic product.

    I hope this has helped those who are still trying to decide what to buy out there.

    Regards,

    Dr. Andrew Nollett, M.D.
    Park City, Utah

    FYI – I am not a member of the Chia Growers association or affiliated with Salba. I am a medical doctor who researches nutritional claims and food ingredients. My contributions to the blog are only to help dispel myths being placed on the internet. To your health and seeking the truth.

    Dr. Andrew Nollett

    12 May 2010 at 10:39 am

  305. Regarding the statement:

    “Again, if you look at the papers you will see that they always use either a single a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized, crossover design or a single-blind, cross-over design. These are peer reviewed papers, published in accredited journals”

    Question: Do any of these studies use “chia” as a control when testing “salba” (or vice versa). This is the “acid test” that no “salba” promoter wants to deal with.

    The Future

    12 May 2010 at 11:11 am

  306. Wow ..Doc ! You write almost as long as I do. I have a few questions regarding your statements above:

    1. Do you agree with the indisputable evidence that the term ” SALBA ” is a registered trademark of just a Salvia hispanica L seed ? or are you suggesting that it is a new or different variety of Chia ?

    Have you actually looked at the trademark on Salba ? it just says oily seed Salvia hispanica L , nothing special, no unique variety…then of course it mentions tortilla chips and a lot of other stuff…boy, I suggest you go read the trademark and the ABANDONED Patent on Salba.

    All the “peer reviewed articles” that you mention, refer to a trademark name SALBA and then in parenthesis the Genus: Salvia hispanica L do they not ?

    The white seed registrations of the two varieties (Sahi Alba 911 and Sahi Alba 91) (sic…Sahi 912) that you suggest are varieties, are in fact not varieties but again just Trademarks. Are you suggesting that these are unique seeds ? With unique properties not in Salvia Hispanica L ? Are you aware that R. Arayza and Wayne Coates mention these names in their book and they supposedly registered them ? That they supposedly found these growing in Chiapas and Guerrero Mexican states, no where near Peru ?

    It’s funny that with all my evidence in previous posts above, detailing the US Patent and Trademark office at http://www.uspto.gov (notice the Dot Gov..as in US Government) patent refusal on Salba that you mention that nowhere does Salba mention a Patent…have you gone to their website and read the text ? Have you gone and actually read the University of Toronto’s study on Salba and not noticed the words “Patent” anywhere ? Have you read the Patent application of Doctor Vulkan where he does not use the word SALBA but just Chia seed repeatedly as Salvia Hispanica L. Are you aware that the study was paid for by SALBA’s trademark owners ?

    Lastly I would be more than happy to send to you our own research from Brunswick labs and Silliker Labs where the ORAC antioxidant test in our normal Chia blows away Salba’s advertised 75 u/mols per g and that’s with the polyphenols as they mention on their numerous websites. Our poor run of the mill Chia tested at a mere 128 u/mols g or about 70% higher than Salba’s or Benexia’s (NSRI) for that matter.

    Doctor from Park City Utah (the HQ for MLM’s) I could go on and on regarding your quick review of this blog, but I suggest that you review carefully what I have mentioned in the past few months because I offer evidence to the contrary.

    Regardless your comments are well appreciated by me and your effort was indeed a good attempt but I am assuming that you agree with the title of this blog SALBA = CHIA because really, The nutritional science, the lab analysis, show that SALBA is the same as other CHIA, no nutritional benefits are in SALBA that are not in CHIA.

    What is weight loss anyway Doc…lots of Fiber, exercise and a good diet, again rich in fiber right sir ? So what are you suggesting ? that SALBA is nutritionally superior ? Funny there is no Scientific evidence that suggests your assertion, just a few articles and studies that were no doubt paid for by the SALBA Trademark owners… right ?

    nick

    12 May 2010 at 12:02 pm

  307. Dear Nick,

    That would be Nick Watson who works for Chia growers and Napol Cactus as the head of sales.

    I am a medical researcher and work as a contracted formulator for nutrient and supplement companies. I have worked for organizations around the globe. I have been doing this line of pharmacology based formulation for more than 30 years. My training is as a MD and pharmacologist.

    I do not publish papers. I do not work for any MLM as you insinuate. I am not affiliated with any company that grows or sells Salba. (unlike you who makes his living selling a competitive chia product).

    As the head sales for a company that sells a rival product, you should be more objective in publishing facts and not sales materials. the study was not paid for by anyone.

    I have spoken to the grower of Salba and the researcher who did the work on the study you so famously claim was paid for by Salba growers. The facts are released.

    My prior post is based on facts.

    My interest in Salba came to surface from a client who wanted to evaluate Salba vs Chia for a nutrient booster in a product they are bringing to the market. Our work did support the findings from the research, with numbers roughly 30% higher than chia. we found Chia is good, Salba was better.

    Not once did I post any negative comments about chia. Chia is a good grain. If the population of the world would consume chia, it would be beneficial.

    But my question to you, a knowledgeable grower, who knows there are hundreds of varieties of most grains, why would you say it’s bad that a company register a brand name for their strain of grain when you have done so for yourself with Black Aztec and your selected strain of cactus?

    Cars are not cars and all chia is not chia. You cant tell me a Smart car is the same as a Mercedes Benz. There is a difference. For the discriminating buyer who want more nutrients, Salba may be the choice for them. Some not and that is OK.

    Just because the only tool you have is a hammer, not everything is a nail. Take off your Black Aztec glasses and look at things a tad more objectively. Be mature enough to recognize that one brand of a product can be better than others and yet there is still a market for the other options.

    Rather than fight the world about Salba, you should be happy that more people are consuming Salba and chia. Live in a world of abundance!

    Coke or Pepsi… it’s ok to like one over the other.

    Chia is good, Slaba is great, it gives consumers a choice.

    FYI, the client that asked me to review chia and Salba, selected Salba.

    Best of luck to you on your next chia and cactus harvest.

    – To your health!

    Dr. Andrew Nollett

    13 May 2010 at 5:45 pm

  308. Now you’re calling Salba a strain…it does not mention that on their trademark application.

    Since you have had so much experience studying the nutritional properties of Salba…perhaps you would be kind enough to share with us where the Salba seed is 30% higher …? Would that be in the dietary fiber…the ALA Omega 3 perhaps ?

    I would mention the antioxidants but we all know they are a low 75 u/mols with the phenolics included it’s advertised right on their site. Protein is a bit higher than most Chia I will grant you that but that’s normal as it is grown at low altitude and the science shows that low altitude offers higher protein but also lower oils and that’s where the Omega 3 is. Besides no one takes Chia for the protein as there are many sources that are higher protein than the Chia seed.

    The Salba brand people went around trashing natural grown Chia seed in all the industry publications in 2007 and 2008, what really got me boiling was one report that was obviously an Advertorial in the NPI Center magazine that was down right untruthful regarding Chia grown in Mexico and Bolivia and Australia …I will be happy to send you the insults that were published.

    Tell me one thing I have said on this blog that is not correct …show me the science because i can show you as i have done above in the Dr. Vulkan University of Toronto post that he himself is Patenting a use for Chia…not Salba just Chia …

    I would be happy to send you a free sample of our Chia so that you yourself can become one of the many converts for this year …Give it a try Doc, you will be quite surprised…

    nick

    13 May 2010 at 6:53 pm

  309. Guys, can we dial up the courtesy and civility a bit? Let’s assume for the moment that you both are well-meaning. Try now to have a civil discussion without trying to push buttons.

    Thanks.

    LeisureGuy

    14 May 2010 at 7:13 am

  310. I completely agree…I work a lot with Food formulators the world over.They use our products as ingredients and of course directly with Food Manufacturers that have their in-house labs (I cannot mention them do to confidentiality issues but they are the largest of the large)

    Dr Andrew, I really hope we can discuss these issues on the phone as I believe that the conversation could be very productive for both yourself and your organization and likely for us as well.

    Please take a moment to call me and you will find me both respectful and open and receptive to your critique and commentary. I look forward to your call sir. Just several posting up you have my contact information. Thanks…

    nick

    14 May 2010 at 8:17 am

  311. From what I understand, Chia is grown in many different countries, by many different growers. Salba is grown in one region, by one grower. This is probably what makes Chia slightly cheaper (due to competition), but you can expect better consistency from Salba.

    As for quality, only the consumer can decide but sometimes you never know what you’ll get when you open that bottle/bag.

    Health Nut

    15 May 2010 at 10:30 am

  312. I still have the idea that Salba IS chia—a subset of chia, perhaps, but well within the Venn diagram circle labeled “chia”.

    LeisureGuy

    15 May 2010 at 10:33 am

  313. Here is a Nutritional fact sheet on Salba® white Chia seed. http://www.northstarnutritionals.com/ingredients.php?id=76 if anyone is interested

    The US FDA requires packers to include all the ingredients on a product’s Nutritional or Supplement label. As you will notice the ingredient in Salba® is: Salba® (Salvia hispanica L) Seed, Hull. The FDA requires trademark names like Salba®, to list the actual botanical name of the product and Salba® lists: Salvia hispanica L. As we all know, that is the botanical name for the Chia plant & seed.

    I totally agree with you “Health Nut” on the comments regarding Salba® Chia seed’s, selection. From what I have seen, it is a clean whole white Chia seed product. To clean our Chia seed from the chaff and husk for example, we go through a 3 stage laborious process, extra clean to 99.97% whole seed in order to bulk export to various countries that have ‘foreign matter’ import specifications on seeds and grains.

    To be fair, I will say that we have had occasional requests from some wholesale clients requesting a less processed seed or even milled, in order to get a better wholesale price. It’s all about what the customer asks for and able to pass on to their consumers.

    nick

    15 May 2010 at 1:53 pm

  314. Just like a Lexus is a Toyota… and there is a HUGE difference between the two even though they might have the same core element. But here we are talking about food so I guess the consumer will have to make the judgment call as to what kind of product they want to ingest.

    Nick, I don’t see anywhere on that Salba fact sheet that says “white chia” so I called Northstar Nutritionals to confirm and they said it WAS NOT white chia.

    You are referencing them as a source so I’m sure you value their opinion.

    Health Nut

    15 May 2010 at 4:32 pm

  315. @ Health Nut

    I thought that was really strange too because as far as I know the actual Salba brand Chia seed has always been the Peruvian grown white Chia seed. Here’s the Salba bottle for sale at Northstar Nutritionals: http://www.northstarnutritionals.com/p/Salba_Seed.htm

    You peaked my interest, since I just put my posting above, up just a few hours ago and well …It’s Saturday and sooooo… I called North Star Nutritionals as well and Geez…all the numbers I called i got a recording that said that they are closed today and that their normal office hours are Monday through Friday 9-5. Here’s all their contact numbers: http://www.northstarnutritionals.com/contact.php

    Here’s a link that will maybe help clear up the issue: http://www.salba.com when you get to this page look at the large picture of the Salba bottle and the white Chia seed mound, next to the bottle. Salba is the white Chia seed… then if you want go to the first link I put here at the top…same bottle, same label…so same white Chia seed…Salba does not sell dark Chia seed as far as I know…

    Hope that this helps…

    nick

    15 May 2010 at 5:21 pm

  316. PS. There’s nothing on that Nutritional Fact Sheet of Salba’s White Chia seed that distinguishes Salba Brand as being any better than other Chia seed on the market. It has the same Phyto-nutrient values as many Chia be it Black, Grey or Ivory or White Chia seed …

    nick

    15 May 2010 at 5:51 pm

  317. @health nut: If Salba is not white chia, what is it? “Salva hispanica L” is, as I understand it, the scientific name for chia. Do you have other information?

    LeisureGuy

    16 May 2010 at 7:01 am

  318. Do all wines taste the same? Are they all created equal? Do you wonder why some wines are more prized than others based on their geographic region? Whether it be taste or nutritional value….

    Same concept applies here… Soil content has a TREMENDOUS effect as does genetically modified crops and selective cross-breeding…

    I could care less whether you think its the same strain of seed because I’m not going to sit here and play evolutionary scientist. If I wanted to do that I would say that we all are just a bunch of primates…

    I believe Salba is prized and different because of where its grown and how it is grown, not because of the origin of the seed.

    I cant believe I am having this conversation with someone who claims to be a farmer.

    Health Nut

    16 May 2010 at 8:56 am

  319. It’s certainly true that all wines are not the same. They are all wines, however. I would even agree that not all chia seed (or carrots or apples) are the same—but they are all chia seed (or carrots or apples). Salba is chia, which is the point I started with. It’s not some totally different plant. Just a cultivar of chia. It’s not even a genetically engineered version of chia. Just chia.

    I’m not a farmer, though.

    LeisureGuy

    16 May 2010 at 9:34 am

  320. I agree all Chia is not the same either… Especially when you see that some is grown in Australia and some in Mexico (and maybe other places)

    However, if you look up the top wine regions in the world you will find places like Mendoza Valley, Chile, California, Italy and even parts of Australia but nowhere will you see Mexico… the soil or climate isn’t optimal for growing certain plants. Plus labor is real cheap and it wouldn’t surprise me if they are more concerned about quantity versus quality.

    Health Nut

    16 May 2010 at 9:42 am

  321. Are you saying the soil and climate of Mexico are unsuited to growing chia? I doubt that strongly, since farmers are businessmen who generally grow those plants that are best suited to their terrain, soil, and climate. But perhaps you have information that I don’t have. It would be good to get a link to some study that justifies your implied statement that Mexico is not suitable for growing chia.

    I just took a quick look. The Wikipedia article on chia begins:

    Salvia hispanica, commonly known as Chia, is a species of flowering plant in the mint family, Lamiaceae, that is native to central and southern Mexico and Guatemala.[1] It was cultivated by the Aztec in pre-Columbian times, and was so valued that it was given as an annual tribute by the people to the rulers. It is still used in Mexico and Guatemala, with the seeds sometimes ground, while whole seed is used for nutritious drinks and as a food source.

    This sounds as though Mexico was quite suited to growing chia. But I’m eager to know the information that you have, which apparently contradicts this.

    LeisureGuy

    16 May 2010 at 9:51 am

  322. @ Health Nut

    Good point, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and as I mentioned on several occasions here on this blog and reiterated by others is that, I certainly agree that including Chia seed in one’s diet is better than not and if you find that one particular color is better than another well then, hey …go for it !

    What I find so interesting is that no one that raises issues with my comments or questions actually attempts to argue or answer them instead they question my persona and not the issue I raise.It’s always back to the comparisons (cars models and manufacturers seem popular)

    Yes, I am a grower and so I know just a bit about growing Chia. I know for example that Chia does not need to be irrigated, if grown in the original areas that nature intended it to thrive. Example: West Australia irrigates, see: http://www.thechiaco.com.au Peruvian Salba brand white Chia seed irrigates, see: http://www.salba.com/nutrition_facts_comparisons/1 (see paragraph two)

    Chia seed, grown where Nature intended does not require artificial irrigation as the climate allows for natural irrigation – that would be the Rain and the Moisture from the high mountain mist – and that’s why here, where we grow, it has been thriving for thousands of years.

    I do not doubt that in the low lands of Peru the Salba Brand White Chia seed is closely monitored as suggested on their website, of course it is, when you grow a crop that is not native to the region you have to closely monitor it.

    I happen to know who the Peruvian farmers, that grow the Salba white Chia Seed are and there are quite a few of them. They grow and in turn sell to the Salba importers in the USA and Canada. There is no great mystery in growing it.

    What I find incredibly mysterious is how they get all the seeds in the ground on the same day of planting and exactly 135 days after they incredibly harvest all of it at once on the same day, in my opinion that is pure romance and hype. see: read in the same link as above.

    As a grower I find that truly not credible, what…? do they have an alarm clock, crops year to year by nature, have to vary …not even our grower bible, the Farmers Almanac can be that exact ! .

    .

    nick

    16 May 2010 at 9:52 am

  323. Just a mention on wines

    Mexico has several very well known wine processors “Monte Xanic” is a prized wine, especially by Californians that buy it up at the border to take back home. Pedro Domeq family (spaniards) has been growing grapes and making wines here for hundreds of years as have the French because they both were rulers of Mexico in different periods of history.

    The Mexico Wine industry is thriving as it’s very well suited to growing quality wines having a much better biodiversity than California. It’s the grape growing infrastructure that needs working.

    nick

    16 May 2010 at 10:31 am

  324. First, Wikipedia is not the authority on anything. They just centralize information from various sources. While this does make it convenient for readers it certainly doesn’t necessarily make them right (or wrong).

    Second, even if Chia was native to Mexico that doesn’t make Mexico the most nutritious soil to grow the crop. (It might make it the most hardy) If this were the case LeisureGuy then one could argue that Europe grows the best grapes for wine right? Greece or Italy where it originated perhaps? And I’m sure that people in California, Chile or Australia would argue that their wine is better… Again, origin means nothing except for purposes of heritage and perhaps hardiness.

    Third, it still strikes me as very VERY odd how you all contend that every single Chia or Salba crop yields the exact same nutritional value EVERYTIME AND IN EVERY DIFFERENT REGION. Where coincidentally every other crop known to man changes with each different environment. Even common sense can tell you when you bite into a Florida Orange or Georgia Peach and you know something is different inside… even common sense prevails when you look at fruit or vegetables at the grocery store AND EVERYTIME they are a different size and shape. AND now Nick contends that some Chia crops need watering and others don’t? As if the nutrients in water don’t have at least some minimal effect? Come’ on… Even a mindless sponge can answer that easy question!

    Do you seriously think nutritional values don’t change?

    Health Nut

    16 May 2010 at 10:37 am

  325. Yes, Health Nut all crops need watering …scroll up ! I said that Salba’s own website says that in Peru the growers of the Salba seed irrigate. I said, we do not because we get sufficient Rain,

    Here, let me repeat that…WE do not irrigate here in the lands where Chia originates from, in high mountains of central Mexico because we get sufficient rains….we also have excellent soils and climactic growing conditions for Chia decided by Mother Nature.

    It is common knowledge in growing circles that water for artificial irrigation coming from the ground or nearby river needs to be assured that it is clean and not full of harmful contaminants and has to be monitored constantly for quality assurance purposes.

    We do not irrigate, we don’t have to, enough rain is here where we grow that we get an abundant crop.

    Now your attacking Wikipedia…my… my … I wonder what the editors would have to say about that. Perhaps you can qualify as an editor so you could go into Wikipedia and change what they state.

    Here let’s try this one, my dictionary is huge one, like big over 18 inches high, let’s see…”Webster’s International Dictionary Second Edition”

    CHIA: …..species of Salvia, Salvia hispanica L from Mexico and South western United States….would that suffice ?

    funny no mention of the other locations, I guess Websters agrees with Wikipedia on this one….

    nick

    16 May 2010 at 11:54 am

  326. A comment on the origins of Wine:

    Taken from the Columbia Encyclopedia (very large book)

    “…Origins unknown, yet the earliest know writings found on wine, Egyptian, would suggest that Greeks and Romans having traded with the Egyptians would of taken the art and knowledge back to their territories…”

    Actually, I suggest that it was Alexander the Great that brought the wine trade.Alexander was actually Macedonian, although Greece continues to claim that Macedonia is Greece. I would like to suggest that it was the Macedonians and not the Greeks that found wine in the Egyptian Empire. Greece actually has an extremely weak argument for claiming Macedonia…and the Macedonians refuse the suggestion that they are Greek.

    Regardless it seems that it was the Egyptians…

    Kind of the same story of the White Chia seed being taken from Mexico and planted recently in Peru (just a small number of years ago) by… Agro Industria del Valle SA a Bolivian & Argentinean conglomerate …and then cleverly dubbed SALBA (Salvia Bolivia & Argentina) SAL…B…A….

    nick

    16 May 2010 at 12:22 pm

  327. @Health Nut—it was you who brought up the idea that chia might not grow well in Mexico, and I asked that you provide some backing for that notion. As I said, I just did a quick search and took the first reference. I understand how Wikipedia is developed, but where is your link to justify the implication you made? To remind you:

    However, if you look up the top wine regions in the world you will find places like Mendoza Valley, Chile, California, Italy and even parts of Australia but nowhere will you see Mexico… the soil or climate isn’t optimal for growing certain plants. Plus labor is real cheap and it wouldn’t surprise me if they are more concerned about quantity versus quality.

    Since wine is not the subject of the post, I had assumed that you’re saying that the soil or climate in Mexico is not suitable for growing chia (“certain plants”). Is that what you meant? If so, I would love a link.

    Here’s a quote from the Journal of Heredity, one of the Oxford journals:

    Chia (Salvia hispanica L.) has a long history of plant-human interaction. In pre-Columbian Mesoamerica the annual crop species was a major commodity and its seeds were valued for food, medicine, and oil (Sahagun 1950–1982). Economic historians have suggested S. hispanica was as important as maize in pre-Columbian Mexico, and in some areas more important (Harvey 1991; Rojas-Rabiela 1988). After Spanish contact and colonization, cultivation of the species plummeted, however, highly productive domesticates are still grown in a few areas.

    So it would seem that the plant was grown heavily in Mexico, and I would assume that it is well-adapted to the terrain and climate. But, as I say, I would be very interested in any links that you can supply to substantiate your position that Mexico is ill-suited to growing chia.

    Could you please point out where “you all contend that every single Chia or Salba crop yields the exact same nutritional value EVERYTIME AND IN EVERY DIFFERENT REGION” (your words)? I’ve looked and I can’t see where anyone has made this claim, so could you point it out? I probably just missed it.

    What Nick said is that in regions where chia originated, it did not require irrigation—natural rainfall is sufficient, since the plant is adapted to that region. Irrigation apparently is necessary in other areas that get insufficient rainfall. And irrigation, as we all know, is not viable long-term since salts build up in the soil.

    Provide answers to the questions please, and try cultivating a bit more civility. Thanks.

    LeisureGuy

    16 May 2010 at 12:51 pm

  328. I am not even going to waste my time digging through worthless pages on this blog looking for your exact quotes. Its always been quite clear that you all attempt to position that Salba has no more nutritional value than Chia. What I did say is that every crop which grows in different regions and different climates has nutritional value that changes.

    Wine is obviously not the subject of the post, its used as a basic example of how changes in soil and geography can significantly effect a crop. Nick, I only guessed as to what region wine originated from and wasn’t far off. However, once again, you completely missed the point.

    There is nothing wrong with my civility LeisureGuy, its clear how you have a strong bias towards Chia and when valid points are raised you feel confronted. The sad part is that I am not even supporting Salba or Chia at this point, only validating that nutritional data always changes from crop to crop, region to region and climate to climate…. Therefore Salba could potentially have more or less nutritional value than Chia.

    Health Nut

    16 May 2010 at 2:04 pm

  329. When valid points are raised, I like to be sure that they’re valid, hence my request for substantiation. Sorry you can’t comply. I have provided substantiation for my own position.

    LeisureGuy

    16 May 2010 at 2:37 pm

  330. BTW, Salba has no more nutritional value than chia because (and this seems quite difficult for you to grasp) Salba IS chia. It’s probably extremely good chia, but it’s still just chia.

    LeisureGuy

    16 May 2010 at 2:41 pm

  331. I have been designated as a substrate, lower on the Totem Pole of life than that, of a “mindless Sponge”

    How can I comment against those odds…I am a nothing ….I have to get back to work….It’s dawn in Asia and time to work with clients…

    Tally ho !!

    PS. Chin up Health Nut ! The last section of your last paragraph above, starting with “The Sad part is… ” that made sense to me !

    nick

    16 May 2010 at 2:55 pm

  332. Hey I have it …how about this

    Salba Brand = Salvia Hispanica L
    Salvia Hispanica L = Chia
    Chia = Salvia Hispanica L

    hmm…getting my calculation tables out …ahhh ! Eureka !!!

    So…Salba must be Chia …..!!!!!! ??? no ..?? :/

    nick

    16 May 2010 at 3:01 pm

  333. Well, if I have to meet halfway on this then I will agree with LeisureGuy’s statement… “It’s probably extremely good chia, but it’s still just chia.”

    Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

    Health Nut

    16 May 2010 at 3:13 pm

  334. I hate to interrupt this great blog duel but I just pricked my finger for my first blood glucose test of many to come I fear. Several days ago my doctor informed me I had crossed the diabetic line (116) which I have dodged for nearly 80 years. In this morning’s Chicago Tribune I noticed an ad offering a product to treat my condition (along with many others!). It was called ‘Salba’, something that I had never even heard of before.

    That led me to the Internet and eventually to this blog which, as an intensive Internet researcher, I must admit is one of the most impressive I have ever run across. After several hours of reading comments I have decided that I must try some form of Chia. Being the ‘Scotsman’ might color my decision as to cost but thanks to you all for at least exposing me to this area which all of a sudden has become quite important. (Oh yes, the Doc did cover all the obvious things, diet, exercise, etc. but I’m now convinced that Salba/Chia can’t hurt and may even help my condition).

    Scotsman 88

    17 May 2010 at 8:49 am

  335. Im sure you will find some benefit from this product but just be careful who you buy it from. As I understand, one option for Chia would be ChiaSeedGrowers or for Salba try SalbaSmart. Be careful buying from certain suppliers who claim to carry Salba as there are some very interesting reviews on the internet.

    http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/core-naturals-ancient-naturals-mitch-propster-c338049.html

    I believe they are the ones that do a fair amount of newspaper advertising…

    Christopher

    17 May 2010 at 9:51 am

  336. @Scotsman 88: I’m 70 and have been dealing with type 2 diabetes for quite a while. Chia is a good food—the fiber especially is important for diabetics, who should get 45g of fiber daily. (BTW, I highly recommend Elisabeth Hiser’s book The Other Diabetes: Living and Eating Well With Type 2 Diabetes.)

    LeisureGuy

    17 May 2010 at 9:54 am

  337. @Christopher: First: you are making a distinction between Salba and Chia. Salba IS chia. Perhaps a cultivar, but still chia.

    Second: the complaint at the link is anonymous. I tend to dismiss anonymous complaints, which may come from a competitor.

    LeisureGuy

    17 May 2010 at 10:11 am

  338. After some research I was able to find a similar complaint which is less anonymous if you read further into the thread… I would be interested to hear your take on this as I too am trying to validate many things I read. Thx

    http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/core-naturals–salba-c147257.html

    Christopher

    17 May 2010 at 11:06 am

  339. That sounds like a real complaint.

    LeisureGuy

    17 May 2010 at 11:12 am

  340. Hi
    this is a fantastic blog and great source of debate on chia (and salba).

    Where is most of the chia grown? I note people saying they are growing it in Canada, Puerto Rico, Himalayas, Chile, Mexico etc.

    You might be interested to know of the Australian Chia Company that grows Chia in the Ord River of Western Australia, http://www.thechiaco.com.au/

    They have more than 1000 hectares (ie 2,470 acres) growing chia. Another report I read stated they grew more than 1,160 tonnes of the chia in 2009. They grow both black and white chia. I have been able to buy black chia as well as a mixture of black and white.

    They have a contract with an Australian bread company, Bakers Delight, and are putting some chia into some of their bread varieties.

    Greg

    23 May 2010 at 11:32 pm

  341. I have been cleaning my files at night and came across this excerpt of an Interview with Wayne Coates. Below is the complete link in Natural News.

    This part below is very relevant to what this blog is about and discussions posted, thought I might share…:

    Fred: Growers of other brand-name chia seeds, like “Salba,” for example, obtained seeds from you?

    Dr. Coates: We worked with them. We know them very well. The two Mealla brothers. They are the two brothers out of Buenos Aires, Argentina. We worked with them in the 1990s.

    They planted the same seeds. The Mealla brothers were involved right from the beginning. We were doing other things with them, too, at that time.

    Fred: Many people may not realize that nearly all chia grown today came from the same source.

    Dr. Coates: Yes, consumers should be informed. They should ask questions like, “where is the data that substantiates claims that white chia is better?” Or ask, “where has the data been published to back up such claims?” Or ask whether such claims are not just based on private studies done in a particular company’s labs. A company can make all the claims it wants. But without independent, published research then there is no substantiating such claims.

    Other questions might be “Who did the research? What methods were used? Where did the seed originate? Under what conditions was it grown?” And so on. Those kinds of questions.

    I don’t personally have the time or interest to pursue these questions simply on my own. But I think if someone wants to do something that would benefit everyone, then those are types of questions one can pose.

    Full Interview link: http://www.naturalnews.com/z023068.html

    nick

    27 May 2010 at 9:21 pm

  342. Does the Chia Tea have the same benefits as the Chia Seed? I have been drinking Chia Tea for about 2 years.

    Beverly Kolonko

    7 June 2010 at 6:49 am

  343. I’m not sure what you mean by “chia tea”. Do you mean mixing chia seeds in water and then drinking the mix? If so, yes. If you mean soaking seeds and then straining out the solids, then no: one of chia’s benefits is fiber, for example, which obviously is then lost.

    LeisureGuy

    7 June 2010 at 7:10 am

  344. I have been eating a minimum of two tablespoons of Salba daily for over two years now. I don’t even concern myself with the costs. It is true that it reduces your glucose level and normalizes your blood pressure.

    Anyone who disputes this simply hasn’t tried it. It also gives you incredible levels of energy and gives your face a beautiful glow. At a cost of $1 a day for these kind of guarenteed results, what difference does it make.

    Sensei

    15 June 2010 at 4:06 pm

  345. @ Sensei,

    congratulations on discovering the wonderful benefits of Salvia hispanica L otherwise known as Chia or if you want a trademark brand: Salba

    Chia seed certainly has the dietary fiber, energy boost from the EFA’s, the Antioxidants and Protein and other vitamins and minerals to help keep your serum glucose levels stable, coupled with the proper diet and exercise of course.

    I do not believe that anyone here is disputing the trade mark brand Salba Chia seed for it’s nutritional deficiency; although there have been many postings suggesting that it is far higher in Nutrients (no real proof has been shown) but more so (postings) for the much higher cost than the non Branded or trademarked Chia seed.

    In my personal opinion, I wanted to comment regarding your last line about “…what difference does it make”

    At 2 tablespoons a day for two years (good for you !) that equates to 600 grams a month. Salba at the standard advertised price of $24.00 a pound (shipping not included) would mean that you have been paying $32.00 a month. Taking into account the standard pricing of $12.00 a pound for Chia seed (shipping not included) or $16.00 for the 600 grams a month you have been taking would mean one could save $16.00 a month

    If my math is correct you would of saved $384 dollars or call it $400.00 with the months with 31 days.

    So Sensei …what difference does it make ?…$400.00 or about a two year supply of Chia seed …or a one year supply of Salba … that to me and to many others is money that can be put to good use in buying other nutritionally beneficial products…if that’s what one would like to do.

    Surprising to have seen a Japanese not concerned about money savings issues …

    nick

    15 June 2010 at 5:00 pm

  346. And even $12 is expensive. Just received my chemical free chia for $5 a pound via amazon. There was an issue with the packaging (small holes that allowed some seeds to spill in transit) but otherwise it is good. So $80 a year or just 20% of the price Salba and other ripoffs like Mila want to charge people….

    The Future

    16 June 2010 at 4:18 am

  347. You can buy Salba all day long for under $20 at your local store, especially if you buy in quantity…. They just cant advertise prices at these levels.

    The biggest ripoff is Salba from Core Naturals/Ancient Naturals… You will most likely be getting Chia anyway and one time my seeds turned green after sitting on the shelf for a month UNOPENED!

    You might be happy to know this Nick….

    Health Nut

    16 June 2010 at 11:49 am

  348. Thanks for the information Health Nut.

    Nice to know but did like the seeds turn green ? or were they beginning to mini – sprout green ? If they turned green then that might be mold (yuk !!) and would mean badly stored when it was in Bulk before the container.

    If they began to sprout then that would mean badly stored as well as the moisture content would of been quite high when in the container.

    By any chance were they in direct sunlight when you had them on the shelf ? that might create condensation…Great Info, thanks ! … If figure it was probably like at the limit of it’s shelf life

    nick

    16 June 2010 at 12:56 pm

  349. Does anyone know the effects of using a Microwave to heat Chia seeds? I like mixing Salba into oatmeal and then I heat it in the microwave. I saw a post here or there saying microwaving destroys Omega-3s. Has anyone seen scientific evidence for this?

    San Francisco

    21 June 2010 at 11:55 am

  350. @ San Francisco

    here is a basic evaluation on MW and it’s effects on the Nutritional values of foods.

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/Microwave-cooking-and-nutrition.shtml

    Here below is a specific abstract of a study on Microwave and essential fatty acids (EFA’s) where they tested Omega 3 (Linolenic EFA mention is applicable for Chia) and Omega 6 (Linoleic is also applicable for Chia)

    Effects of Microwave Heat, Packaging, and Storage Temperature on Fatty Acid http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf9909609

    So to answer your question, it sounds like there are no issues with Microwaving your Chia and Oatmeal.

    BTW, There is a study on Bovine Calcium (Cows milk) blocking the Antioxidant Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity (ORAC) by up to 30% so those of you that enjoy eating high antioxidant berries, fruits, (Chia, Flax etc) and the like with Cows Milk in your cereal might consider another delivery method or go with another type of non bovine based milk.

    I have the study if anyone would like it. i know this opens up a whole can of worms because a lot of people do enjoy eating berries and other high antioxidant products in Cereal mixed with Milk but there you go, another thing that those cereal boxes with pictures of fruits omit to mention

    nick

    21 June 2010 at 1:06 pm

  351. I find hemp milk to be very tasty, as is almond milk, which is also low-fat.

    LeisureGuy

    21 June 2010 at 1:45 pm

  352. Great comments and links guys, really helps me alot. I am from South Africa and would appreciate if someone could link me up with a farmer or supplier that supplies organic certified, fair-trade chia.

    Thanks

    MAXwills

    22 June 2010 at 5:11 am

  353. @ Max wills

    Ben at “Nuts on line” mentioned in a post above that his company offered traceability and i am not sure that he also mentioned the organic but i am pretty sure he did above in a post sometime ago when I was conversing with him about Chia and Organic certificates. You’ll have to scroll up or maybe LG might help as he has recommended Nuts on line once or twice.

    nick

    22 June 2010 at 2:25 pm

  354. I’ve ordered stuff from them a few times. Never any problems.

    LeisureGuy

    22 June 2010 at 3:16 pm

  355. I have just started reading about all this and it is apparentthat there is alot of money and competition involved in all of this.

    makes it harder to determine what to use to help save my life. i am not a super rich person and I will do the best I can – i don’t need some FDA studied anything since I know for a fact that the studies done on many of the things I have eaten and have been feeding to my family have actually hurt us Horribly and all been clinically studdied and then released to the public as safe and it turns out that they are just killing us all off like flies in a tent.

    it’s rediculouse that anyone would actually discover a food such as this and hold back or tell garbled goop stories about it to get more buisness – seems to me being the most honest would really help your buisness out greatly seeing as how there are Billions of people who need help, Literally. i just lost an aquaintence last week to diabetes. He was only 39. I am older then him and just last year realized what was happening to me after i was tested at 600 + blood sugar level.

    I have managed to get it down myself to around 140 or so as I have no money for doctors and testing and stuff like that, But had I heard of this product sooner things may have been different.

    I will get some of this as soon as possible – black , white , mexican, whatever I can find – I will sprout it, eat it raw and whatever else i can incorporate it into for a few months and see if it’s helping me out any at all. Lord Knows it will be cheaper than Blue berries and Ireally amd having doubts about how good that is doing for me anyway becuase they arte so sweet. seems my sugar level peaks when I eat those.

    testing on my own i discovered something that i have not seen anywhere and I would like to mention it right here in the hope that some one may be helped out by it.

    I had stomach problems starting around 13 years ago to some pills that were given to me to take after some surgeries – back – shoulder and hand operations to fix stuff from a bad accident I had –
    The pills were Viox and Oxycontin and Hydrocodon – these drugs ate me up so badley I thought I would surely die – i was bleeding horribly and could not walk upright.

    i found I could take Zan Tac – an over the counter drug that seemed to cure my stomach pain and allowed me to get out from under the pain meds – and the whole country was alerted to Vioxx so that was discountinued immediatly.
    I stayed on Zan tac for for years on end – eating 150mg to 450 mg daily.
    Guess what happened? I never thought anything would ever happen – I thought it was saving my life and allowing me to live close to normal.
    I believe that it shut my pancrease down cold! Prolonged use of this product does something to you that you would not expect. I believe it was makeing my food not consumeable to body and I was some how starving myself to death of certain things that I really needed. i ama Huge person and It took a long time – I was very ill for years and explained all my symptoms away easily even though they never really ended they just switched back and fourth – i thought I had the flue – before i would get over that I would get pnumonia – i woudl get a cold – i would feel horribly achy – all sorts of terrible afflictions end to end for years – no one wated to be around me so I woudl try to fake feeling well and still do things as best as I could.

    One day it hit me, ( I say this liek it was my idea but really – it was like some one was talking to me inside my head – call it what you will.. But it really did happen ) I quit taking that stuff and tested for sugar and Poof – i was a walking time bomb with barely any fuse left – i do not know how long My sugar was as high as it was but I suspect it was well over 300 for over a year and spiked to 600+ that day. I was told it was a miracle that I was alive at all.

    I do not believe that Zan Tac as a short term answer to the lineing of your stomach being torn or missing is a bad thing. but some one should allow a warning for prolonged use. I am certain that I am correct about this. i have a unique situation here and testing in this exact manner would take anoth ten years at least.

    I literally did not take ANY OTHER PILLS for the entire time. I swore them off. I did not eat candy excessivly – soda – beer – bread – ( I did eat pasta a few times week ” my weakness ” but not to extreams really )

    seriously – if you are on Zan Tac – take a look back and start asking questions – i think it made my pancreas take a vacation for long enough that it just decided that that it didn’t need a boss anymore.

    I am praying that I can get it back working properly again – i am sure it will take a very long time and close managment if it’s even possible – I have already got most of the feeling back in my feet and hands and my eyes are getting better now as well. My teeth are getting repaired as i can afford and my hair seems to be returning to it’s normal state. all this after only 8 or nine months or so.

    my other hope is this stuff does some more to help out. i will seek it out. brand name or not. :O)

    Ya’ll be careful and i wish you all luck.

    Mike

    Mike managing blood sugar

    7 July 2010 at 4:21 am

  356. What a story. Solutions close at hand yet blinded by the “keep em alive enough that they can pay but sick enough that they need us money making” institutions. Sounds like a radical dietary change and more importantly the mental attitude that enjoys the change and thus makes it sustainable and fully effective. Whole foods instead of processed. Low glycemic index instead of high (there are exhaustive GI lists on the web, in books). Low glycemic load too (often overlooked). If costs are a factor, start a garden.

    Balance.

    (and that doesn’t mean a little junk to balance the good food).

    Good fortune. (Luck has nothing to do with it really….)

    Chia per my links above can be bought for less than $5 a pound.

    The Future

    7 July 2010 at 6:02 am

  357. I have re read what I wrote.

    LOL – My Blood sugar must have been hitting fairly low. I apologize for the Typos.

    Amazing that the spell checker thing didn’t stop any of that. :O)

    Mike managing blood sugar

    7 July 2010 at 5:39 pm

  358. @ Mike

    No problem on the typo’s Mike it happens all the time and it’s pretty much standard to not critique people when they are typing on message type boards or blogs.

    Your 600 on glucose meter is I have to agree quite high, border line pancreatic meltdown, next time that happens you should try and go into a clinic to get an IV hook up. That figure is almost double the danger mode.

    Good to hear that you’ve been able to bring that down to 140 or even if you can keep it below 200 is Ok.

    How you can benefit by eating Chia (any type really) is the relatively high dietary fiber (insoluble and soluble) that will help in slowing down your digestion and therefore lower your sugar peaks after a meal (post prandial) to more gentle arcs over a longer period of time (2-4 hours)

    Chia, also should provide more satiety or feeling of fullness (from the soluble fiber) it will give you a bit more energy to do some exercise if you wish and also offer you the proteins (plant based) that your body is asking for when it wants to be fed.

    Certainly not a magic bullet but I believe an important addition to one’s daily supplements.

    Wish you all the best !

    Nick

    Nick

    7 July 2010 at 6:25 pm

  359. @ future

    As usual you hit the nail right on the head !

    Nick

    7 July 2010 at 6:27 pm

  360. “The Query ( 60-274.256 ) was unparseable (Invalid Patent Number Search ).” The Patent number from the Salba website is invalid according to the United States Patent Office website.

    Llepke

    10 July 2010 at 7:57 am

  361. @ Llepke

    Very observant and well said, Llepke. I was going to mention to LG and now I will that the preamble on the e mails we get on new comments states just at the send that Salba …well here I will copy and paste it so he can see for himself.

    Apparently Salba ($30/lb) is just a registered trademark for a particular variety of chia. You can also get generic chia seeds. See here. Note price difference. And it’s $6/lb here. [It was at the time---the price has gone up. - LG] UPDATE * : It’s only fair to note that Salba (the patented variety that [...]

    As Llipke points out, SALBA is NOT patented at all and only has a Brand name trademark. To be just Llepke LG, does mention this in UPDATE 4 at the beginning of this blog, but still I agree with you that his preamble I copy above is rather misleading….

    Nick

    10 July 2010 at 8:52 am

  362. hi everyone,

    thanks for the informative blog. As The Future said, I checked Amazon, but couldn’t find $5/lb. I did find $8/lb for certified organic chia seeds, which seems reasonable. It’s from a company called Nutiva. Anyone bought this brand before or have any opinions regarding?

    Anonymous

    14 August 2010 at 10:47 pm

  363. You can find $6 per pound chemical free chia seeds at this link

    The Future

    16 August 2010 at 6:21 am

  364. I am too lazy to ground flax seed, hence chia seed appeals to me,
    I look for fiber in dry foods like nuts, seeds and grains. Then I look for benefits. This is why I have chosen chia seed over flax seed. Flax products have a shelf life that does not suit me as I am not likely to consume enough and hence wasted money.

    I have bought white with black, and black with white. I found the primarily white variety absorbs liquid more than the black…so I tend to like the black for cereal.

    After all the comments I have read, I believe I will stick with the black… it is organic and has white, brown, black..

    Dprang

    22 August 2010 at 12:23 pm

  365. Hi, anyone know the different between chia seed and basil seed. i know they both come form the same family and even have the same feature in physicality.

    don

    1 September 2010 at 6:56 pm

  366. Hi Don
    Chia, or Salvia hispanica seed is marketed most often under its common name “Chia,” but also under several trademarks, including “Cheela Brand,” “Sachia,” “Anutra,” “Chia Sage,” “Salba,” “Tresalbio,” “Purisalv,” and “Mila”

    Its actually part of the Mint family or Lamiaceae.

    Wikipedia has a good article on it. I don’t see any relationship with Basil, but I am not the expert

    I use both Chia (White and Black) as well as Mint and Basil. I can grow the last two in the garden. They go well with Miso soup.
    Greg

    Greg

    1 September 2010 at 9:53 pm

  367. Hi Don and all
    Well got that wrong.
    This site “Plants for a Future” tells us things I haven’t seen before
    http://www.pfaf.org/ It seems like a very knowledgeable site

    You can search under Chia, Mexixan Chia, Mint and Sage and Basil
    Strangely they are all in the “Labiatae” family. If you search in this family you get 8 pages of plants. The Salvia sub family (Salvioideae) covers chia and sage largely. I didn’t know there was a Mexican Chia AND Chia

    The rest of Labiatae includes mint, basil and a bunch of other things. Most sites state that chia is part of the mint family. Technically true but obviously the story is much wider than that.

    Greg

    2 September 2010 at 11:02 pm

  368. Salvia hispanica – L.

    Common Name: Mexican Chia
    Family: Labiatae
    Synonyms:
    Known Hazards: None known
    Habitats: Not known
    Range: Southern N. America – C. Mexico

    taken directly from:

    http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Salvia%20hispanica

    Key Word Search: Salvia hispanica

    Nick

    3 September 2010 at 12:34 am

  369. Don, Basil seed is used in Southeast Asia and the Middle East to make a drink similar to chia fresca. It’s sometimes called “falooda.” I have a post about it on my website at http://www.chiativity.org/2009/03/holy-basil-batm.html

    I don’t believe there have been any studies of the nutritional value of basil seeds. However, perilla seeds (also from the mint family) are known to be high in omega-3s, so I imagine basil seeds are probably pretty healthy. You can buy them online, or in an asian market.

    margaret

    4 September 2010 at 8:29 am

  370. After covering a wealth of information on the content of the Salba, Salvia Hispanica Black vs White and the regionals, Lab testing ect. I am informed and incouraged to grow this Superfood, and please this is a request for information on the cultivation of Chia (All encompassing varieties).
    I am aware that it flourishes in the higher elevations, hot & dry location.
    What I would like to know is the 101 of cultivation.
    Seed dept, seed spacing, distance between rows etc, Need to know!
    I am a crusader for Chia and the Nutracutical benefits, Diabetes, blood pressure, endurance obesity etc. I want to become a grower, Assistance Please.
    Warm,
    Regards

    GBS

    13 September 2010 at 10:30 am

  371. @ GBS

    Sure, I can give you a short – 101 on Cultivation – if you wish GBS. click on my post name or send me an e mail to info@chiaseedgrowers.com

    I will be happy to help, you can call me at our USA direct line to our office here in MX and I will give you a few pointers.

    Reagrds

    Nick

    Nick

    13 September 2010 at 12:30 pm

  372. I tried to read through all of the comments here and hope I didn’t miss the answer to this question already.

    Will exposing chia seeds or flour to cooking temperatures damage the Omega 3s and other fatty acids in the seeds? I want to use them as part of my replacement flours in gluten free products but don’t want to do damage to the fats.

    Thanks for any info!

    i.pooticus

    27 September 2010 at 9:20 am

  373. Baking large items like bread would be fine . The internal temperatures are much lower than over temperature. Small items or items fried or cooking by similar means, would not be so good.

    The Future

    27 September 2010 at 11:19 am

  374. Nick asked me to post this since he’s have trouble getting his comment through:

    @ i.pooticus

    http://www.udoerasmus.com/articles/udo/fish_oil.htm

    The above is from Dr. Erasmus Udo who although a promoter of Flax seed still is a leading international authority on Seed Oils and one of my personal favorite’s on understanding Chia seed makeup as Flax is similar to Chia in the ALA Omega 3 Oil properties.

    Regarding ALA Omega 3 deterioration, well yes it will degrade upon heating but to what level ? There is so much ALA O3 in Chia seed that you need not worry, at least that’s my opinion.

    The EU has set a Daily Minimum Value (DMV) on ALA O3 and that is 2,000 mg. Considering a Tablespoon of Chia seed (10 g) could have as much as 2,500 mg of ALA O3 and Dr. Udo mentions that there is heat sensitivity in all oils (except Olive oils) if you read the above link

    Hope this helps !

    LeisureGuy

    27 September 2010 at 5:25 pm

  375. My husband and I ran across the same problem, wondering why the seeds were so expensive when we found out it was just a trademark as well.. Nice to know we don’t have to spend so much money to stay healthy!

    Gourmet Nuts

    28 September 2010 at 10:35 pm

  376. Those of us old enough will remember many fads that have come and gone. Chia is just another which will be forgotton in a couple of years. Just keep to a balanced diet, exercise regularly, get adequate sleep, drink two litres of water each day, don’t smoke, drink in moderation and don’t overeat. Do that and you’l live to a healthy old age like my wife and I who are currently in our eighties, play golf regularly and don’t have any health problems. You don’t need books or advice just common sense. Watch people in the supermarket line and see the rubbish some of them consume and then look at their bodies. It’s sad.

    geoff boxer

    10 October 2010 at 6:17 pm

  377. Should chia be forgotten, it would be a sad loss to our food supply. High in protein, fiber, and omega-3 fatty acids, there is nothing faddish about it as a nutrient.

    LeisureGuy

    11 October 2010 at 5:08 am

  378. Worry Not !

    Reporting from the grower side –

    Demand continues to be heavy and supply, light. Now that the EU has accepted Chia seed as a Novel food (March 09) and more growers are applying for Novel food certification, the new EU markets will continue the trend for upward demand especially to replace Flax in the EU bread industry.

    Prices should continue to lower, albeit slowly, as grower supply increases to meet the demand over the next few years.

    Nick

    11 October 2010 at 1:00 pm

  379. Its great food source and if you look at the Nutrition Data site you can see why

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3061/2

    Its a bit lacking in Vitamins but when mixed with various other cereals (oats, wheat germ, barley flakes, rice flakes, quinoa flakes, etc) and topped with yoghurt its nearly a complete breakfast. Some Acai Berry powder added to the cereal mixture fixes the vitamin issues.

    Its being grown extensively in Australia and even used in commercial bread through a niche Australian bread company called Bakers Delight.

    It ain’t going away and its just going to go from strength to strength.

    Greg

    11 October 2010 at 4:17 pm

  380. Nice post Greg…OK, I feel like livening up the blog a little ! So there’s nothing like a little muckraking to add some spice and bring out the best and the worst, or perhaps it just won’t bring anyone out at all but it’s worth a try.

    1. I hear it on good authority, that the Salba brand and all other white seeds (including those white seeds mixed with the black) are devoid, yes devoid ! like in zip, zero, anyway, they are devoid in Quercetin, a plant based flavonoid. This powerful natural antioxidant is found in many fruits and vegetables (red apples, red onions etc..)including dark Chia of course but seems to be essentially non existent in Salba and other white Chia.

    If this would true as I am sure it is then we could no longer say that white Chia specifically the Salba brand is better than the Dark Chia could we………..???

    Well for now I just wanted to bring that up for comments.

    p.s. please do not assume I am suggesting that Salba or white Chia seed has no antioxidants, well of course it has various other good flavonols and Polyphenols, just not Quercetin a very important one.

    Nick

    11 October 2010 at 6:29 pm

  381. @Nick

    Firstly when did anyone (not from Salba) say Salba was better? I have had some antioxidant testing done on the black variety and it came out at 9900 Total ORACs! Which is close or higher than blueberries. We still have to test the white variety but according to Dr. Coates its levels are far lower (makes sense as colour normally indicates anti-oxidants)

    I’m sure based on the perceived differences in anti-oxidant contents Salba doesn’t have alot of flavonoids that black does have. So why focus on Quercetin? I don’t hear that in the health market as a save your life flavonoid.

    Grant @Gogee

    11 October 2010 at 11:41 pm

  382. @ Grant

    Having read most of the posting above (but not all) I realized that even though there are clearly number of Salba marketers trying to argue the superiority of the white seed Salba brand as opposed to Chia seed in general, there were in my opinion, quite a few people that were really convinced that the Salba brand of White Chia seed is a better seed and therefore justifying their purchasing it, at a slightly higher price.

    Since I am always interested in the Science versus end user efficacy and general perception, I chose to dive into the Salba Chia seed website and review their support material and was surprised to find various inconsistencies that I have already previously mentioned and cited above in previous postings..

    I picked Quercetin because that’s what is available as a distinguishing marker between black and white Chia seed. One seems to have it (dark) and the other does not (white) Quercetin is indeed an important flavanol and one that at least in the medical field seems to be established and recommended and prescribed as an anti-inflammatory.

    What quirked my interest in Quercetin was a recent double blind study that used Chia seed on the one side and Quercetin on the other in order to compare inflammation reduction over the course of 10 weeks upon +50 women. http://www2.independenttribune.com/news/2010/aug/15/new-study-explores-health-benefits-chia-seeds-ar-333359/

    I understand your comments not to literally mean a “Save your life” antioxidant nor do i assume were you actually suggesting that I had said that but I guess my point on Quercetin is that it is prescribed by Doctors where Chia being a natural product cannot be prescribed by a medical doctor.

    What is very interesting about Quercetin is that it is found in darker fruits and vegetables as you rightly refer to, but the very interesting point to me, is that it is found in the Red Apple. The Red Apple is dark red at the peel but white all on the inside. It is in the Peel where the Quercetin is and it is in the outer husk in White Chia seed that the Quercetin is NOT.

    Blueberries have been tested in ORAC both in Wild and commercial production. Blue berries from the wild are a bit higher in ORAC and come in around 6,700 per 100 grams. Most Chia I have seen advertised with an ORAC claim are about 7,500 per 100 g including the polyphenols (Benexia, Salba etc)

    For you to have 9,900 per 100 g is very good and I congratulate you ! We had our Aztec Black (97.5% black seed, not Grey) ORAC, FRAP and TEAC tested at Brunswick Labs in NJ (patented the ORAC in-vitro testing method) and ours came out to 12,800 per 100 g.

    But of course, to be perfectly honest about all this as I like to be, It is a darned sight much easier to eat 100 grams of blueberries than to down 100 g of Chia seed in one sitting, so all these types of comparisons are a bit misleading but I understand that we in the industry have to use a marker.

    I think that the dark outer shell of the black Chia has various other attributes that the outer layer of the white Chia like the Salba brand does not and I would like to mention those later.

    To go out on a limb for the moment, I am suggesting that yes as the title to this blog clearly states: Salba=Chia seed as a species but perhaps not so much in the phyto nutrient values as here is one aspect that it does not seem to be able to meet.

    Nick

    12 October 2010 at 9:05 am

  383. @ Nick
    @ Grant

    Would you say that the difference in nutritional values of “chia” be due seed origination? Ex:

    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3061/2

    as compared to

    http://www.bulkbarn.ca/en-ca/products.html?product=3285&search=chia

    From what I gather after reading the comments above, the general consumer of Chia should be really asking for nutritional values and such analysis from the intended supplier’s Chia seeds prior to purchase, as a valuation for product quality and justification of price.

    Would that be correct?

    JC

    23 November 2010 at 9:05 pm

  384. @ JC

    Wow, that is one of the best assessments that i have read on here. Very nicely put !

    With many of our wholesale buyers, the first item request of the day is “Specification sheet or Certificate of analysis ..please”

    Then the conversation continues but the written Certificates are what they ask for first. I actually appreciate this because, then I know that I am talking to a professional in the Nutraceutical or Food & Beverage Industry.

    Yes, JC that is exactly what one should be doing if they are serious about the quality instead of always..price. Just because it looks and smells nice does not mean the values are high.

    Nick

    23 November 2010 at 10:07 pm

  385. @JC according to Dr Coates and their analysis they determined that variations in content depend largely on location/origination.

    http://www.drcoateschia.com/tables/seedbylocation.htm

    As you see not all chia is the same. Because it hasn’t been mass produced and genetically modified there is large variation. The best strain hasn’t been chosen (except for Salba) that is why I love chia it is still so natural.

    Be careful about the way we push chia, keep it as natural as possible.

    Grant @Gogee

    23 November 2010 at 10:35 pm

  386. I also see a lot more comments from “chia marketers” (*Nick*) than from anyone affiliated with Salba. Seems obvious to me that the Salba people do not want to get in a public shouting match with chia. Kudos to them.

    Betty

    5 January 2011 at 8:14 am

  387. @ Betty

    Betty we are Chia seed growers and do not market Chia seed for retail sales. The reason you see a lot of my comments is because the title of this Blog is SALBA = CHIA SEED and I am helping the consumer understand that it really is just plain old Chia and not some glorified unique strain as they claim in their marketing.

    You obviously have not read the entire thread above, as there have been quite a few Salba “marketers” that have come on here to try and discredit my comments, to no avail since they cannot show any peer reviewed scientific studies showing that Salba is a unique strain or higher quality than black Chia. Like you, many of them end up attacking me since they have no other alternative to disproving my comments, they attack the messenger.

    There’s no “shouting match” going on here Betty, just the real deal on Chia and the nutritional advantages of the colors. I believe I have convincingly shown that

    1. White Chia is just Salvia Hispanica L. as mentioned in very small text on the Salba label.
    2. That white Chia does not have a pigment based Antioxidant named Quercetin and there for one antioxidant less than black Chia.
    3. That Salba has a 75 u/mols per g ORAC equivalency, where high mountain volcanic soil grown dark Chia has 128 u/mols per g ORAC and therefore 70% higher in Antioxidant value than Salba that claims to have the highest on the market. (will be happy to send you the analysis)
    4. That the St. Michael’s study that Salba claims to have done with their Chia was nothing more than a study using dark Chia and that Dr. Vuksan of St. Michaels hospital was paid by Salba people to add the Salba name to his study even though he used generic Chia.
    5. That SALBA is not a Patented strain of Chia as they claim in their marketing, The Patent does not exist

    There are quite a few other points but then again I think that’s enough to show you that the reason why the SALBA people tend to slip away from here, is because they know that there position is not backed by any credible Science and it is all “Romance” marketing.

    As I have said many times before, consuming Chia, any Chia is better than not consuming it in my opinion. What I feel personally abhorrent is when a company offers a product claiming it to be far superior to another and charging 2 to 4 times the price with no science backing up the claims. It tends to confuse the consumer and I for one offer to set the record straight.

    Nick

    5 January 2011 at 9:32 am

  388. Nick,
    Actually they are selling productsfor up to 12 times the price. I’ve bought chia for $5 a pound. I’ve been offered “salba” and other ripoffs for $60 a pound.

    PS Even though the folks who swallowed the marketing gimmicks said it was “impossible” I’ve grown my own for several seasons too.

    The Future

    5 January 2011 at 4:28 pm

  389. @Future

    Good point and thanks for correcting me on that, you’re absolutely right and leisure guy has mentioned Chia at $5.00 LB a few times as well.

    That’s great that you are growing Chia and supplying yourself with your crop. Several people have come on this blog and contacted me about growing and I try and help as much as I can. As you know it is NOT impossible to grow in marginal areas and I totally agree about the marketing gimmick stuff about special strains and variants etc. I am a firm believer The more Chia that can be grown the better !! It will slowly bring the price down.

    Last spring I read a study that tested Protein, fibers and antioxidant values in the Chia plant itself at 2 months, 3 months and at flowering stage. I was pleasantly surprised at the high levels present in the leaf and stalk.

    So you might think of drying and grinding the leaves that fall off and keeping them and taking the stalk after harvest and making Chia tea… I can send you the study if you like.

    Nick

    5 January 2011 at 9:20 pm

  390. Interesting. I had not heard of using the plant parts for consumption. The dried flowers also have a pleasant smell. Do send the study. I’ll email you.

    The Future

    6 January 2011 at 3:03 am

  391. Well, Salba is NOT $60 a pound anywhere.

    The study was, in fact conducted on Salba, not chia. I don’t suppose you have record of Dr. Vuksan saying otherwise, do you? Additionally, chia has done similar research and FAILED to duplicate the results.

    Salba has 84 u/mols per g ORAC equivalency, which is less than you claim for black chia, but higher than you stated above.

    [edited for courtesy - LG]

    Betty

    7 January 2011 at 3:26 pm

  392. @ Betty

    If you read Future’s comment ” …They are selling products up to 12 times the price…” this does not necessarily mean, he is talking about what you are inferring.

    Regarding your statement on Salba’s ORAC values, I would be very interested in knowing where you got that amount as on the below link Salba proudly mentions the following:

    “…The analysis we just had done by Brunswick labs showed that the total ORAC value of Salba grain is 70 TE per GRAM. TE stands
    for triox (sic) equivalents. The hydrophilic is 68, and the lipophilic is 2, to give the total of 70! This is an extremely high value…” http://sourcesalba.blogspot.com/2007/09/oxygen-radical-absorbance-capacity-orac.html

    Indeed, just a tad shy of your claim of 84. So as NOT to get into a shouting match I am assuming that you work with the Salba brand and have new and updated information ?

    Regarding your comment on my aggression. If you take it as aggression well then, so be it. I suggest that rather than aggression I am perhaps being overly zealous in trying to put forward real fact, rather than fancy exaggerated marketing ploys.

    For example and a case in point: Look at the above text taken directly from Salba. “…This is an extremely high value !….” Extremely high compared to what ? We had our Chia tested by Brunswick labs as well and with Poly-phenols, tested at 128. Now if Salba Brand 70 is extremely high, maybe you could suggest the appropriate adjectives to describe 128 u/mols per g Trolox value, would: ….”right off the charts” …” “Incredible… mind blowing …” be appropriate ?

    Again, another Salba person that attacks my character rather than the evidence I put forward.

    Above, I linked the very Dr. Vuksan study at St. Michael’s on Chia seed and D II. Please take the time to read it for yourself and review the links. You will see very clearly that Dr. Vuksan used the same study to apply for Intellectual property rights, with no mention of Salba Brand Chia but just plain Salvia Hispanica L.

    I find it really surprising that you insulted this blog and people that have posted on it. I could care less if you insult me…please continue if you wish but why would you insult this Blog ? Many people have found it to have helped them understand more about Chia seed in general, would you not agree ?

    …. I am just a deeply interested Chia grower that would like everyone that pays for expensive Chia to realize that Salba Brand is nothing more than, just White Chia seed, branded to be something special and therefore justifying the “off the chart :) ” higher price.

    Nick

    7 January 2011 at 5:12 pm

  393. To say Salba is not $60lb anywhere implies you have looked everywhere. Clearly you have not. I ended up on this page after network marketers tried to convince my wife and several of my friends to buy Salba for $60 a pound. PLUS SHIPPING.

    Once my wife asked a few questions about the product she realized it was chia and said “Oh, my husband is growing that already”.

    The marketer friend “Impossible” (The website and literature say it won’t flower blah blah blah.)

    I was harvesting a few weeks later.

    People getting ripped of is sheer catastrophe and I’ll be glad to see they day the fraudsters in alll their forms FAIL.

    The Future

    7 January 2011 at 6:58 pm

  394. S. hispanica will not set seed outside of the subtropics because it will not flower until very late in the fall, and frost will hit it before seeds form. Researchers are developing a strain that is not sensitive to daylength, and that should help those of us in the Northeast.

    Margaret

    8 January 2011 at 9:35 am

  395. That sounds perfectly plausible, we got hit by frost in late November on a few of the fields and yield in those affected parts was way down. The seed that did yield was a dark red and I have had it sent for oil analysis as that’s not too expensive and it can tell me a lot about the red seed.

    I thought you might like to see the USDA map on wild or what they say is native Chia growth in the USA. (weird disparity on the map and NY is one of the states.

    http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=SAHI6&mapType=nativity&photoID=

    Margaret, I thought you were interested or were growing up North or am I mistaken ? if not then, did you have any encouraging results ?

    Nick

    8 January 2011 at 11:02 am

  396. Attempting to distinguish Salba from chia is like distinguishing Fuji apples from apples in general. Salba is a type of chia. (Apparently that is a difficult concept to grasp.)

    LeisureGuy

    11 January 2011 at 9:33 am

  397. With respect, to say Salba is to chia what Fuji apples are to apples is a stretch. Salba is to chia what dobermans are to my named doberman ‘Rocky’. Same thing with some unquantified but nonetheless unique traits. Nothing to get excited about and start naming entire lineages after….

    The Future

    11 January 2011 at 3:25 pm

  398. Leisure Guy is exactly right. Salba is a “variety” of chia with a registered trademark. Whatever taste, color, or nutritional value it has will be maintained in its offspring. This is a technical, biologically and legally defined difference. Fuji apples are a variety of apple with a registered trademark, etc. etc.

    Nick, I was just talking with a fellow Long Island botanist about the discrepancy in that map. One of these days we’ll track it down. Chia definitely doesn’t grow in New York!! Unless it’s in a greenhouse.

    Margaret

    16 January 2011 at 7:44 pm

  399. Can’t prove it but am skeptical of Salba’s claimed superiority over generic chia. I suspect they tout salba’s ‘whiteness’ as a way to differentiate their product and to justify their exorbitant price. Usually in nature, the darker and more heavily pigmented a food, the higher the level of phyto-nutrients. Wild grown foods are frequently more nutritious and usually more expensive. Salba seems to have learned that effective hype can result in a higher price.

    Iggy Dalrymple

    5 February 2011 at 10:40 am

  400. Love this blog. I have been in the chia supply and manufacturing business for 6 years. I would love to shed some transparent perspective on the subject. We have a neat little company that is a green manufacturer and we have pioneered many aspects of chia milling etc. I am encouraged that there is so much intelligent chatter on my favorite subject.

    Neal Sutphin

    27 March 2011 at 4:14 am

  401. Oh yeah, we started our own label, because we saw so many of the brands out there gouging the public and marketing straight up malarkey.

    Neal Sutphin

    27 March 2011 at 4:19 am

  402. @ Neal;

    Really nice website! How refreshing to have see change in the Phyto-nutrient vs benefit approach that the site seems to offer.

    This is exactly the same type of approach we are taking on our Nopalexport site. We decided to offer real information from NIH studies (Nat’l Inst. of Health) and with these say: “Here’s all the nutrients and this is what the NIH says that these nutrients can offer to prevent,treat, support, etc…

    I have a lingering question that I hope you can answer regarding the Cold Fracturing milling and Super Critical CO2 Extraction: Are the Oils extracted and then the Milled Chia offered ? Any comments would be greatly appreciated !

    Thanks and again a really nice website !

    Nick

    27 March 2011 at 11:56 am

  403. Just got back from Whole Foods, where I discovered Mamma Chia beverages, made from chia. I tried the Raspberry Passion, though tempted by Cranberry Lemon. Very tasty, no refined sugar, and a good way to have chia.

    LeisureGuy

    1 April 2011 at 9:59 am

  404. Excellent observation LG, When we were at the Natural Products association EXPO WEST a few weeks ago a friend of mine was so enthralled by the MAMMA CHIA product (to take to other markets)that he invested in her company.

    I found all the flavors to be pleasantly lite and appealing and a really good point to mention it. Expect ground Chia with enhanced flavors, quite soon.

    Nick

    1 April 2011 at 11:14 am

  405. I often buy a drink of some sort to have in the car on the way home from the store. I had been having white tea, but I’m switching to Mamma Chia. I want to try the lemon cranberry. I really like it, and it occurs to me now to make it at home using fruit juice and sparkling water.

    LeisureGuy

    1 April 2011 at 12:43 pm

  406. The Lemon Cranberry has a great flavor (my Fav) Here in Mexico I mix my Chia with a chilled Hibiscus Tea (I buy the leaves at the local market and make tea for the week) letting it sit overnight and add a touch of Raw Agave syrup and drink in the morning.

    Although Chia has no taste, it’s nice to add taste to it and mixing it up occasionally. I like the idea of the Sparkling water, I am going to try that.

    Nick

    1 April 2011 at 2:06 pm

  407. Can chia seeds be planted in pots? Thanks!

    growing seeds

    2 April 2011 at 3:19 am

  408. I just wanted to say that I live in Houston and I sprinkled Salba seeds all over my yard, like I have done before with flax seeds. The Salba seeds are doing best in all the same places the flax seeds did – where there is well-draining soil. It even tolerates quite a bit of shade, which surprised me. I sowed them 2 months ago and the best ones are almost 5 feet tall. We just had 57 days of drought and they thrived anyway. I have flower “spikes” right now on several of the ones in the sunniest locations, and can’t wait to see the actual blooms. I will let you know if I get any seeds from them. I fully expect to very soon, but I am most interested to see how they hold up in our intense summer heat and humidity.

    Also, my rabbits go nuts over any plants that I pluck up and give to them. I’m just glad to have found something so easy to grow in my climate. Houston is zone 9, but it is cheap and easy enough to experiment in your own climate. Don’t miss out on the fun! Just throw some seeds around somewhere and see what happens.

    After reading all of these great comments, I think that as far as growing them, I will not get “Salba” seeds from my plants, but rather I will get seeds with quality levels according to what my own dirt will produce. So for what *I* can grow, chia is chia. I was just trying to avoid spending $15 for 12.7 oz of Salba again, but next time, I will probably buy the cheaper chia seeds. Thank you all for your input!

    Jeannie

    15 May 2011 at 8:52 pm

  409. Grow…Jeannie…Go !!!

    Nick

    15 May 2011 at 10:36 pm

  410. This is a fantastic forum. I recently started taking Mila, never having even thought about Chia seeds as a dietary supplement before. I’ve noticed a positive difference and want to continue taking Chia seeds. The price was a concern ($55/16 oz) so I started doing some research (including the great feed back on this forum). The conclusion I’ve come to for myself is that although Mila is twice the cost of another respected brand of Chia seed – I don’t believe it to be twice as beneficial. So I’ll choose another brand.
    Thanks everyone.

    Janet

    10 August 2011 at 4:07 pm

  411. Usually in the world of nutrition, the more colorful or more heavily pigmented food is the most nutritious. I don’t know for sure but I suspect that the cheaper dark chia seed is more nutritious than the expensive white variety.

    Iggy Dalrymple

    10 August 2011 at 5:54 pm

  412. Iggy, see the most recent post on my blog: http://www.chiativity.org

    Margaret

    15 August 2011 at 5:30 am

  413. Just to clarify – chia is not a supplement. Through Dr. Wayne Coates’ work and efforts, chia was classified as a food by the FDA.

    patricia

    22 August 2011 at 8:03 pm

  414. Just to clarify – Note: The USDA is the governmental body that classifies Foods, the FDA does not determine whether a product is a food or not it is the USDA as i am sure you are aware, no doubt it was a slip of mind.

    I am a little surprised that you do not include Ricardo Ayerza in your comments as from what I have read, they both began from the outset back in the early 90’s researching Chia hand in hand. Of course I can understand your favoritism, considering the website you are writing from is owned by Wayne Coates and I for one, am often guilty of favoritism since I live and grow Chia in Mexico.

    I would certainly agree with you that Dr. Coates would be one of the principal catalysts for bringing Chia to the forefront of health and wellness in the USA and my congratulations and respect certainly go out to him and Ricardo. I wish him all the best in his new China endeavors !

    Nick

    22 August 2011 at 9:58 pm

  415. to Leisure guy, it seems to me that u r for real and I really need to know what’s the best chia web u can find to shop. I don’t trust any, thnks 4 any help.

    magali boggio

    29 September 2011 at 12:51 am

  416. The link Don gave seems fine. I buy it at my local grocery store.

    LeisureGuy

    29 September 2011 at 4:31 am

  417. is there a way to figure out where the chia i buy at the store comes from? since this seems to give it its value, i have bought different kinds and really noticed a differences in the way i felt after taking it, ( i had a small zip lock baggy with some in it for when i was out and about and didnt want the quick sugar high that is so convenient.) so one day i took the new chia and tried it, then the next day i used the old chia, and found that the old was a better quality, so that got me thinking that there was a difference in brands, but how to know which was better other then trial and error.

    as for growing, i have two plants i started about a month ago, i live in southwest florida, so i would think its the right climate, will know better in a few months whether they really can be grown at home to seed.

    ted

    6 December 2011 at 4:12 pm

  418. If your in Florida and you are buying a Generic Chia or is it a packaged brand ? Look at the label and let me know who is the distributor and i can tell you where the Chia is from. Click on my name and send me an e mail and i will be happy to help – info@chiaseedgrowers.com

    Nick

    6 December 2011 at 6:29 pm

  419. Swanson has a good deal on chia. http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SW1206/ItemDetail

    Luis

    9 December 2011 at 11:53 am

  420. I have been eating chia for a couple of years now – because I like it. I just munch on it during the day. I have recently found a petfood store where I can buy it for 6 € a kilo – so far no problems.

    Anonymous

    2 March 2012 at 12:23 pm

  421. I have two springer Spaniels and give Chia to them 3 times a week mixed in their food and the Vet things it’s fantastic as there hair shines and apparently – the groomers say -sheds less since they started taking it about a year ago.

    Nick

    2 March 2012 at 3:12 pm

  422. Hey Leisure Guy… some interesting news on Salba… you should go to http://www.rfcexpress.com – search the case called “Salba Corp., N.A. et al v. X Factor Holdings, LLC et al”. Click on Court Documents and download the Document in the list at the date “7/3/2012″ called “Answer to Complaint”. Some very enlightening information about Salba and the research you may want to share with your audience. Since its in court – the information is now public.

    Rally Ralston

    15 July 2012 at 12:16 pm

  423. I found the document to which you refer, but it costs me $6 to take a look at it, and I’m not that. Perhaps you could simply state what is of interest?

    LeisureGuy

    15 July 2012 at 12:52 pm

  424. Perhaps the information in this link: http://www.propertyintangible.com/2012/05/salba-united.html may shed some light on the subject that ‘R. Ralston’ above was referring to.

    Interesting that the the above last name is the same as the one bringing suit….regardless, after reading the details in the link above it seems that Salba(r) has yet again, managed to create another refined mess by applying slippery marketing methods and tactics…So the Salba…oops, So the Saga goes… **Yawns**

    Chia lover

    16 July 2012 at 7:58 am

  425. Leisure guy, the people at salbasmart should be ashamed of themselves for aligning with Vladimir Vuksan as I have it on the highest authority that Vuksan was a party to an internal inquiry at the University of Toronto on the basis of research impropriety. Most notably, these were the facts that came to light. First Vuksan has a financial ownership interest in Salba via the company Sahis Holdings. This genius even has the company Salba Corp NA registered to his home address. Second, he was found guilty of research misconduct regarding Salba. Third, he perjured himself in his sworn affidavit in the Canadian Court Case Mealla et al v. Salba Corp NA. And finally that he misappropriated research funds from other grants in favor of salba research. But here is the worst part, Vuksan knows full well that he used black Chia seeds in the original research because there were no white seeds available. His original research posters even show the photos of black chia. Vuksan never wanted anyone to know that he had a financial interest because the so called third party research would not have ever been published under those conditions. This is why he had to publish a correction on the research… you can check this with Diabetes Care. The worst part for the consuming public is that the Meallas paid expensive lawyers to suppress these realities from the public. Evidence of this travesty can be seen in the thesis by Amy Lee, one of Vuksans students, in which analytical results towards the back of this thesis show the word Chia crossed out and replaced by the word salba…this can be found on google. I dont represent any competing company which is why you won’t see any advertisements here…I just think its time that consumers really know the truth about this company and those that support them. The lesson here is that all research from Vuksan should be taken under the context that he has financial interests in the outcome and if indeed there was any legitimacy to the results of those findings than certainly any well grown chia should be credited with the same.

    dana witham

    28 October 2012 at 10:12 am

  426. Great article! I am goin to to look further into the chia seed benefits. Thanks for sharing!

    Dan Manley

    21 June 2013 at 6:04 am

  427. Currently I cook 2 Tbsp in my morning hot cereal, but it doesn’t have to be cooked.

    LeisureGuy

    21 June 2013 at 6:12 am

  428. Awesome thread everyone. I learnt a lot reading this. Thanks for the clarification around why exactly Salba is the price it is and why it has the claims behind it. It makes a lot of sense now…

    - Enlightened -

    23 September 2013 at 7:15 pm

  429. I haven’t read this whole thread, but feel I have to put in my 2 cents worth. I have been researching chia seeds to use as a dietary aid. According to WebMD, the black chia seeds can raise triglycerides in the blood and they recommend salba chia seeds, which (I think) are the more expensive white chia seeds. Just sayin’… here’s the link:

    http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1224-CHIA.aspx?activeIngredientId=1224&activeIngredientName=CHIA&source=3

    delilah

    22 November 2013 at 1:15 pm

  430. delilah, I read your link and could nothing about black chia boosting triglycerides.

    Iggy Dalrymple

    22 November 2013 at 1:36 pm

  431. Delilah brings up a good point, obviously Dr. Vlado – basically the scamming researcher with Salba – managed to get someone at Web MD to edit in, his biased and fraudulent research notes on Salba. Here is the Web MD comment Delilah mentions and then below from Web MD again I added what they say about Triglyceride causes,

    CHIA Side Effects & Safety

    http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1224-CHIA.aspx?activeIngredientId=1224&activeIngredientName=CHIA&source=3

    High triglycerides: Blood contains several types of fat, including cholesterol and triglycerides. Triglyceride levels are too high in some people. Eating some types of chia can make them even higher. If you have high triglycerides, stick with using a specific variety of chia called Salba. Salba does not significantly increase triglyceride levels.

    What causes high triglycerides?

    http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/tc/high-triglycerides-overview

    High triglycerides are usually caused by other conditions, such as:

    Obesity.
    Poorly controlled diabetes.
    An underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism).
    Kidney disease.
    Regularly eating more calories than you burn.
    Drinking a lot of alcohol.

    Certain medicines may also raise triglycerides. These medicines include:

    Tamoxifen.
    Steroids.
    Beta-blockers.
    Diuretics.
    Estrogen.
    Birth control pills.

    In a few cases, high triglycerides also can run in families.

    If the shoe doesn’t fit then you gotta acquit :)

    Nick

    22 November 2013 at 1:43 pm

  432. chia news

    31 May 2014 at 12:26 am


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