Later On

A blog written for those whose interests more or less match mine.

Brayton’s "Most delusional quotation of the day"

with 8 comments

Ed Brayton:

You’re going to want to be sitting down for this one. And don’t drink anything while reading it or you’ll ruin your monitor and keyboard. This is the terminally ridiculous Bill Donohue of the Catholic League taking his self-delusions out for a stroll:

No institution, religious or secular, has less of a problem with the issue of sexual abuse today than the Catholic Church.

Done laughing yet? He continues:

Indeed, if Lopez wants to be cutting edge, he would do a skit on all the molesters in the public schools who are protected by state law from just punishment.

What the hell is he talking about? I have no doubt that there are public school teachers and coaches who are molesting children; any job where one is a position of authority over children is going to attract pedophiles and ephebophiles.

But in a public school setting, the law is quite explicit — anyone in any position of authority, from teachers to administrators to counselors, who has reason to believe that a child is being molested is legally obligated to report that information to the police. I don’t know of a single example of a school superintendent finding out that a teacher or coach is molesting a child and then moving that person to another school where they can find fresh victims rather than reporting them to the police. If there is such a case, they are violating the law and would be put in prison if they’re caught.

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, has covered up for hundreds of child molesters for decades, moving them from parish to parish so they can victimize more children. The current pope explicitly ordered the church leaders not to turn molesting priests over to the police and ordered them to handle the matter internally. The bishops and cardinals who covered all this up are still in positions of authority in the church, not one of them having been held responsible for being an accessory to child rape.

Donohue is living in a fantasy world.

Written by LeisureGuy

30 September 2010 at 9:23 am

8 Responses

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  1. Donahue is stuck between a rock and a very hard place as they (the church) must abide by Romans 12:19 where in essence it says:

    International Standard Version (©2008)

    Do not take revenge, dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written, “Vengeance belongs to me. I will pay them back, declares the Lord.”

    So if you were Bill Maher for example, he might think that message was Loony tunes or pure fantasy but if you were the Pope then what else can he do ?

    Now if these molestations occurred in Iran under Ahmadinejad reign for example then it would be “off with their heads”

    Nick

    30 September 2010 at 11:00 am

  2. You’re quoting Paul. Let me go directly to the Source: Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God those that are God’s.” (relying on memory here.)

    If the state (Caesar) has passed laws, it’s incumbent upon the Church to obey those laws, including not being an accomplice in sexual crimes. Those who break the law should have been reported to authorities, not protected and rewarded. The Church is now exposed for what it is: a human institution fully as fallible as any big business and no more worthy of respect (nor no less worthy). It should be judged on its actions, not on its pretensions and PR.

    LeisureGuy

    30 September 2010 at 11:36 am

  3. Oh..I agree with you but what about the interesting prospect of Diplomatic immunity in the sense that all the priests are but ambassadors or emissaries of the Vatican.

    Would this compromise the Vatican’s and Holy See’s unique position as a country (they both have separate passports ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City

    Nick

    30 September 2010 at 11:59 am

  4. I believe that the priests in question were citizens of their country, not residents of the Vatican/Holy See. Also, their responsibilities were neither ambassadorial or diplomatic.

    Nick, I sometimes wonder whether you are serious in the arguments you advance. I prefer to discuss positions people actually hold rather than digress into arguments of the Devil’s-advocate genre.

    LeisureGuy

    30 September 2010 at 12:10 pm

  5. On this topic as others at times, it is in my opinion that the issues that are at hand or up for discussion are not necessarily as simple or black and white as one would like.

    As in this case that you bring up for example. The underlying issues that are at hand are whether the Church would allow governmental jurisdiction on the prosecution of the clergy. This in itself would open up a whole host of other perhaps petty prosecutions that would break the dam and release complete chaos upon it’s establishment.

    I was only trying to suggest that the church, by seceding to the law of that particular land as it relates to Pedophilia, might then set precedence in all other potentially legality issues.

    Take for example a murder confession or plain thievery if you like by a Catholic to his priest. If the priest withheld the information from the authorities then would he not be liable for prosecution under laws of aiding and abetting or willfully impeding the wheels of justice.

    I realize that some priests have reported the information obtained at the confessional, to the appropriate authorities but still the question remains that more than likely many priests do not report what they have heard and apparently absolved. Certainly the priests have a unique one on one situation and can determine themselves whether to report to their higher ups or keep quite as it were.

    Getting back specifically on topic after suggesting variables, do you not see the dilemma that the church has in this regard ? I mean let’s be quite frank here, the Pope would have to be classified as ‘mentally deranged’ and committed to an asylum if one were to look at it in black and white as you suggest.

    Of course the Church is morally abhorred and embarrassed by the recent situation (past 50 years) recent I say because for the church 50 years is like a week or a month in our lives. But what will they do about it ? Reflect, pray and pass the buck.

    It was only in recent history that western society passed laws against frolicking and abusing minors, before that it was tolerated I can only imagine. That being the case, i find it rather naive to suggest that the entire world should think and do as we in the West decide in regards to whats permissible or not.

    The entire North Africa, middle East and many parts of Asia have been buggering children for thousands of years and it continues apparently unabated to this day.

    I think you misunderstand my stance to suggest I am playing the devil’s advocate, I am only trying to suggest why this continues to go on unabated for decades (I suggest millennial) as you mention without any real resolution.

    Society tolerates it as long as it’s not their child nor their priest involved.

    Nick

    30 September 2010 at 4:02 pm

  6. Well, you’re right that I do sometimes rush to resolution without considering all the angles. However: in civil society churches and church officials have long been subject to secular law, and I see little difference here, except that the Catholic church is so averse to “scandal” that they will hide any crime. (You have a wonderful example in Mexico and the Legion of Christ.) And I agree that church officials have undoubtedly been abusing children for hundreds if not thousands of years and that most people don’t care so long as it’s not their children. Both of those you perhaps see as calls to inaction and complacency, but I see those both as causes for outrage.

    I do not understand your reference to the “past 50 years”. The abuses in Ireland date back to the 19th century at least, and the Legion of Christ began 70 years ago.

    And, BTW, the Church in the US, like all religious organizations, still are subject to secular law over secular matters. I don’t think child abusers can secure a “religious exclusion” to their indictment and prosecution however much the Church may want it.

    LeisureGuy

    30 September 2010 at 4:45 pm

  7. You notice that other institutions—the schools discussed in the post, for example—seem to have procedures to handle this sort of problem and do not get involved in protecting and helping the pedophiles.

    LeisureGuy

    30 September 2010 at 4:52 pm

  8. You really have me thinking on this one and the reason sometimes for my quick DA type answers is because I post at the same time as fielding work related issues.

    I decided I wanted to learn about a specific area that peaked my interest so I Googled: catholic priest and jurisprudence and am at Wiki where as you know i usually tend to go first http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest-penitent_privilege

    While I am reading up and prior to making a comment, I did want to mention that this Priest abuse is one of the most abhorrent of issues for me.

    Many times I have pondered, that given the opportunity, I would be the first in line to hone a knife and volunteer to slice off the offending member for those that could not and would not seek to change their habits.

    Nick

    30 September 2010 at 9:03 pm


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