Pursuit of ignorance seems to be a modern phenomenon
I woke up last night and got to ruminating, and one topic was thinking about my earlier post on the deliberate pursuit of ignorance—the one that comments how wrong Aristotle was in saying that all men by nature desire to know. I imagine that he was generalizing based on all the men that he knew at the time, and Greece in the Classical age was indeed marked by constant investigations and innovations in knowledge.
But until the modern age—after the rise of the scientific method—what people debated and fought about was matters of belief rather than knowledge: the killing of heretics, the wars against the heathen, the conflicts over what rights people possessed: those are less matters of knowledge than of belief, which is why wars are fought: there is no objective measure with which to decide, nothing one can use to establish which view is correct other than killing all those who disagree.
But with science, as Galileo Galilei legendarily demonstrated at the Tower of Pisa, we suddenly have a way to discover an objective truth that does not involve the exercise of power or of arms: look to see what experience tells us—i.e., look at the universe and see what it is doing independent of our beliefs.
Of course, when this method first appeared, it was opposed with power, as Galileo’s trial and punishment at the hands of the Catholic church shows. And it depends on people wanting, in fact, to know: the Catholic religious refused to look through the telescope to see whether he was correct so that they could preserve their beliefs—which is an admission, more or less, that they do not trust their beliefs to be consistent with observable reality.
Once people began doing experiments, then we see the desire for ignorance arise. Beliefs could fight with beliefs, but experimental evidence doesn’t fight: it just sits there, showing what the universe in fact does. So if you like your beliefs and you think they will not withstand a reality check, your best course is to seek ignorance: to shut your eyes, put your hands over your ears, and sing “La-la-la” for so long as you want to maintain a belief that you know or suspect is contrary to reality.
To my mind, this is an astonishing response, since I tend to think that people really want to know what is real. But as the GOP has shown, many people will try to suppress any information or findings that challenge their belief, and to keep others from seeing those as well—willful ignorance as public policy.
And I think this has happened (in the large, not in the simple sense of fighting to keep something secret—cover-ups have always been with us, I imagine) only with the rise of the scientific method. That is, people have always tried to conceal certain things (criminal acts, location of treasure, useful knowledge, and so on), but to turn away from reality as a public policy: that’s new.
UPDATE: See comments for a brief discussion of important truths that are not in the bailiwick of scientific investigation: truths such as the human rights a person has. Such rights are an important question, but not a scientific question. That is, I certainly cannot think of an experiment to determine exactly what rights a person has. A more open question on which there is disagreement, as pointed out in my comment below, is regarding animal rights: what rights does an animal have with regard to captivity, slavery, killing, and so on? This is not the sort of question to which science offers an answer, as I think should be obvious. This is not to say that the question lacks importance, just that science doesn’t deal in this sort of thing. Science can, of course, contribute to the discussion: determine whether animals feel pain, the range of their consciousness, the feels that (for example) mammalian mothers have regarding their babies. That sort of information can be helpful, but ultimately this is a belief/ethical/moral question, and those fall (in general) outside the sphere of science.

Re:
“the conflicts over what rights people possessed… there is no objective measure with which to decide … ”
Then, in your judgment, it would be purely a matter of subjective preference whether (let’s say) a man who is being enslaved/oppressed/miseducated/robbed/attacked has the right to oppose any of it?
Kate Gladstone
13 February 2013 at 12:59 pm
No, what I mean is that there is not experiment that can be performed to ascertain whether such rights exist and exactly what those rights are. Which rights one holds are a matter of belief, and (as stated in the post) matters of belief can only be settled by struggle and the application of power. My post was about the investigation of fact, not action (being robbed, for example) or belief (that one has a right to privacy, for example).
Perhaps my post isn’t clear. I’ll take another crack at it. So far as being enslaved and the like, it might help to view other animals: many people believe that we have the right to enslave them and even kill and eat them. How would one establish by experiment whether that right exists? or whether other animals have rights similar to those of the human animal? or if it’s just a matter of power?
LeisureGuy
13 February 2013 at 1:08 pm
Science operates in the realm of Reason, spirituality in the realm of direct and non-linguistic experience. The two cannot cross over, but they are constantly forced to do so in pursuit of the Ego.
Steve
16 February 2013 at 2:29 pm
There are also other realms: music, for example, and painting, and poetry, and drama—art in general. And the political/legal sphere: what rights do humans possess by virtue of their humanity, and what rights do animals have, and so on. I imagine one can identify other realms: then sensual (which would include cooking/dining, the erotic arts, massage, and so on), the comic (things that make us laugh), and so on.
LeisureGuy
16 February 2013 at 3:14 pm
Could there be anything — anything at all, in the nature of a human (or an animal, plant, or whatever) — that would make it possible to decide that some way(s) of treating a person/animal/whatever are objectivelymore suited to that life-form than other ways would be? If you say “yes,” then already you’re talking about rights. But if you say “no, there are no rights: only opinions” … then you’re saying that no way of treating a given person or animal can possibly be *wrong*, either.
Or let’s make this more personal: does a child have a right to try getting through its childhood unraped and unstarved if it can? Or do its parents and teachers have the option of saying: “Raping and starving a child, or not doing so, is a mere matter of subjective personal taste or whim” … Or … Do you believe that if someone wants to rob you, kill you, or shut down your blog, your right to try to hang on to these things you value (your blog, your assets, from your life) is objectively no more valid than what the other person might regard as his own “right” to remove any of those things if he feels like it?
kategladstone
16 February 2013 at 4:18 pm
I appreciate your efforts to make moral decisions part of the domain of science, but I’m afraid I don’t see that. I certainly recognize “right” and “wrong” in moral terms, and I on the whole accept Kant’s Categorical Imperative and the Golden Rule, but I think these truths are not established by scientific experiment—and I note that you have proposed no experiments—but by moral judgments, which (I believe) are not the sphere of science. I’m not saying that for someone to rob, rape, or kill is right—indeed, I think those things are wrong—but those are not truths of the same sort or domain as (say) Newton’s laws of gravitation.
I don’t think this is terribly controversial. Newton’s laws were established through experiment. Moral laws are established through moral instruction.
And it’s certainly not the cae, as you seem to be saying, that in morality everythign is okay. Not ata all.
LeisureGuy
16 February 2013 at 4:33 pm
I DO NOT say that “in morality everything is okay” — I agree with you and other decent people that some things are definitely not-okay, ever (theft, enslavement, murder).
What I’m saying is that morality (or moral instruction) involves a factual standard whether we say so or not. (Example: why is it immoral to immerse a newborn child in boiling water, but it is entirely moral to immerse a new potato in boiling water? Because there are certain known and important differences between a child and a potato. If potatoes were very different from what they are, in certain ways at least, decent people would either stop eating potatoes or would have to at least seriously consider whether one should stop eating them.)
kategladstone
16 February 2013 at 6:24 pm
Could you put the boiling baby example in a scientific context for me? That is, how would establish, through experiment, as a physical law, that boiling a baby is “wrong” (morally wrong)? I certainly agree that it is wrong, but I truly do not see how scientific procedures and experiments lead to moral judgments. Indeed, we have examples of scientific research that violates moral standards: experiments without informed consent—one thinks of the Tuskegee experiments on syphilitics, for example, or some of the Nazi experiments using prisoners in concentration camps. These were scientific but morally quite wrong. And, of course, we see moral positions that are totally unscientific: for example, that homosexuality is “bad” when clearly it is (scientifically speaking) not a matter of choice. Or that it is right (or wrong, depending on your own moral stance) to put some criminals to death. Or to kill people in warfare: conscientious objectors see that as wrong, many others see it as right, and most take a nuanced position: combatants engaged in fighting can be killed, but not civilians or combatants who have been taken prisoner. These are not the result of scientific experiments and reasoning. They are different—and clearly different people come to different moral conclusions about these matters. I think surely you agree to that: you have but to look around you and see that some oppose the death penalty and some approve of it, both judging from their own moral perspective. And I don’t see a scientific experimental way to decide which of the two is “correct”. Do you? If so, what is it?
I just don’t see understan conflating the scientific method and moral judgment. They really do seem to me to inhabit different spheres of knowledge/truth, just as in the other examples I offered above: art, sensual experience, comedy, and so on.
LeisureGuy
16 February 2013 at 7:17 pm
I will do my best to tackle the “boiling baby” example as a thought-experiment … though I don’t Liam that experiment is AT ALL the route to choose there! (I agree with you that right and wrong in morals do not lend themselves well to experimental design!)
So far … My own mere groupings to answer your question are as follows:
/1/ Anything that’s moral (or immoral) is — so it seems to me — moral (or immoral) *only* insofar as it involves some entity that can experience its own existence & can make choices about what actions to perform or not perform. (We would not call it “immoral” for a plastic doll to fall accidentally into boiling water: the event was neither caused by, nor experienced by, anything alive and capable of choice/action.)
/2/ Therefore, it’s at least arguably POSSIBLE — as just a sort of “first approximation” to building a sort of “morality checker” criterion or set of criteria — to say: “Whever else may or may not be immoral, unilaterally choosing to act in a way that creates limitations on someone _else’s_ ability to make choices is immoral: because it decreases the overall _amount_ of moral choice-making that the ‘someone else’ will be able to do.” So, even at this “first-approximation-and-NOT-at-all-complete” stage of probing the problem, it becomes possible to say that initiating violence isn’t moral.
I’ll leave it to you to either rip this to shreds or take it further.
kategladstone
16 February 2013 at 7:47 pm
That strikes me as a definition (a philosophical definition) rather than as an experiment.
Let’s take a more ambiguous case, since boiling babies is an extreme that is immoral from any cultural viewpoint. I suggested some situations in my earlier response:
Scientific but immoral: experiments on people without obtaining informed consent.
Moral questions outside of science: The death penalty: some consider it moral, some consider it immoral. How could a scientific inquiry (i.e., experiment) decide which position is correct? (I don’t think it can: as I note, I consider moral judgments as outside the sphere of science.
Another example: killing in time of war: group A: civilians (“collateral damage”); group B: combatants in battle; group C: combatants not in battle but prepared for battle (e.g., sniper; bombing); group D: combatants who have been captured. The military obvious views killing of group D as immoral, the others as moral; conscientious objectors view killing any of the groups as immoral. Again, how would science help decide? (My answer, obviously, is that the issue is not a scientific question.)
And again, I say, other realms are also outside of scientific judgment: art, sensual experience, comedy, and so on. These involve judgments that are neither scientific nor moral. Scientific methods and moral methods are not relevant in these spheres, in general—though of course, some consider the eating of meat as immoral, others as moral. Does science offer an answer? (No.)
LeisureGuy
16 February 2013 at 8:36 pm