Later On

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Huckabee

with 14 comments

Who says he doesn’t have sufficient knowledge of foreign affairs?

Written by Leisureguy

6 January 2008 at 3:32 pm

Posted in Election, GOP

14 Responses

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  1. Oh. my. gawd.

    And that, friends, is how people like GWBush et al. keeps getting reelected. I have [online] friends from all over the world and when I try to explain American politics to them, they never get it.

    Nor do I!

    Like

    Zaine Ridling

    6 January 2008 at 6:51 pm

  2. “I have [online] friends from all over the world and when I try to explain American politics to them, they never get it.”
    can you explain me me policies of those countries” from all over the world ” may be it is Russia or China or France? name me a country which has better policies that USA other than midgets or neutrals . Do they care what we think about their policies? i doubt it . why would we care?
    one more time : name the country and we will talk

    Like

    2008voter

    6 January 2008 at 8:52 pm

  3. “Why would we care what other countries think about US politics and policies?” Have you been asleep for the past 7 years? Haven’t you observed how hatred of the US has been a motivational force for the fundamentalist Islamic movement? Haven’t you observed how increasingly difficult it is for the US to act as a leader with more and more countries distancing themselves from US policies?

    Like

    LeisureGuy

    7 January 2008 at 8:23 am

  4. 1.
    hatred toward to USA have nothing to do with American pilicies. They did hate us before they will hate us after.Biggest mistake is to think that if we will be better they will like us. Is there any proof of that ?
    we did help Muslims in Bosnia and as a result we got thank you gift on 9/11
    2.
    still not clear what countries are you talking about. name me the concrete countries you meant and we will see how better they than the USA. make an effort be specific.

    3.
    USA was hated long before than 7 ago Bombing of Belgrade turned Russia and many others ways form the USA why this magic number 7 years?

    finally:
    you can be as rude as you want ( very strange offensiveness from a person who want to be a pro-“mutual understanding” and “anti-hate” agent) )
    but one more time : name a country and we will talk otherwise it is just another splash of anti bush hysteria irrational and pointless

    Like

    2008voter

    7 January 2008 at 9:32 am

  5. I don’t think I was rude, but if you took it that way, I apologize.

    When the US occupied the moral high ground, countries generally recognized the US as a leader and the US had more influence. Certainly specific policies might be disliked, but in general the US was more admired and attempts were made to emulate it. There have been any number of global polls showing how this has changed.

    I’m sure you’re aware that the 9/11 attackers were not from Bosnia. They were from Saudi Arabia, for the most part. Do you think all Muslims are the same? Let me point out that the European conflict of WW II was between Christian countries: do you think all Christian countries were the same in that conflict?

    The EU (not yet a country) has better policies than the US on several grounds: healthcare, for example, or torture, or indefinite detention without charges or legal representation. I’m aware that some of the EU countries had governments that supported the US secret prisons, but those governments have had that policy soundly repudiated by their citizens.

    I used the 7 years as a rough approximation of the time since the 9/11 attacks, when the US changed direction toward broad domestic surveillance, secret prisons, torture, unprovoked attacks on other countries, and the like: policies that displease not only other countries but also many US citizens. The actual time is 6 years, 3 months, 27 days, so perhaps I should have said “more than 6 years” instead of “7 years.”

    Like

    LeisureGuy

    7 January 2008 at 9:44 am

  6. 1.
    “There have been any number of global polls showing how this has changed.”
    So what ? Since when polls in one country defined policy in another country and why should they ?
    2.
    “I’m sure you’re aware that the 9/11 attackers were not from Bosnia. They were from Saudi Arabia, for the most part.”
    My point was that Muslims did not appreciate American help to Albania , Bosnia and Kosovo. Helping Muslims did not protect us from “fundamentalist Islamic movement” on 911. Am I wrong?
    3.
    “Do you think all Muslims are the same?”
    Did I say that ? If so, then show me when, if not then do not put words in my mouth please. By the way, it was you who brought Muslims in this conversation not me. Am I wrong? Why did you bring the subject of Muslims in this conversation? Do you think that all Muslims are the same?
    The fact is indisputable : American support to Muslimsnin Bosnia, Albania and Kosovo did not score any points for USA and did not prevent us form 9/11, therefore it is a proven fact : being helpful to others does not mean that others will like us, and it is true not only about Muslims by the way.
    4.
    You wrote
    “Haven’t you observed how hatred of the US has been a motivational force for the fundamentalist Islamic movement?”
    “I used the 7 years as a rough approximation of the time since the 9/11 attacks, when the US changed direction toward broad domestic surveillance, secret prisons, torture, unprovoked attacks on other countries,”

    Correct me if I am wrong 9/11 happened before “broad domestic surveillance, secret prisons, torture, unprovoked attacks on other countries,” and it happened despite American support to Muslims in Balkans against Serbs. Prove me wrong .

    One more time: why bombing of Belgrade is not a problem for you ? War on Balkans which killed any hope on partnership with Russia is not a problem for you? Why ? Because bush cannot be blamed for that? Was bombing Serbs an “unprovoked attack on other countries,”?
    5.
    “ Let me point out that the European conflict of WW II was between Christian countries: do you think all Christian countries were the same in that conflict?”
    Have no sense to me. How it related to anything I said?
    However if you want to talk about WW II ,then be my guest .
    1. Did Japan attack the USA because policy of USA was bad an public opinion in many countries was against USA ?No. Policies were just fine . but USA still was attacked.
    2. USA attacked Germany preventively . Germany never attacked USA
    3. The phrase : “European conflict of WW II” does not make sense. WW2 is world war and by definition cannot be limited by Europe ( this is why it called world war) and therefore has nothing to do with Christianity per se.
    WW2 was not a religious war unlike the jihad which is the religious war against infidels declared on us long before your favorite 7 years time period

    Like

    2008voter

    7 January 2008 at 4:04 pm

  7. Regarding 1: you asked whether our policies really had any influence on how other countries felt about the US: “hatred toward to USA have nothing to do with American pilicies. They did hate us before they will hate us after.Biggest mistake is to think that if we will be better they will like us. Is there any proof of that ?” I was offering proof of that, as you requested: when we acted better (as a nation), we were better liked.

    Regarding 2: You again are trying to say that Islam is a seamless movement. It is, in fact, a great diversity, just as is Christianity (as I tried to point out with the WW II example). While some Muslims felt good about our intercession in Bosnia, the Wahhabi in Saudi Arabia were already set on attacking the US.

    You are not wrong that helping the Muslims in Bosnia did not help protect us against the Wahhabi movement. Nor did anything else we did.

    Regarding 3: I did bring up the Islamic fundamentalist movement—you are not wrong. I brought it up because you asked “why would we care?” which I interpreted to mean, “Why would we care about what other countries think about the US?” And that, of course, reminded me of 9/11. So far as thinking all Muslims are the same, you seem to be saying that our helping the Muslims in Bosnia did not help us with respect to the Muslims in Saudi Arabia, which I (apparently mistakenly) thought that you saw as being more or less of the same belief. Of course, I think everyone knows now about the divisions among the Muslims.

    You know, as I read the rest of your comment, I am overcome with a great weariness. I will convince you of nothing. Let us leave it at that.

    Like

    LeisureGuy

    7 January 2008 at 4:22 pm

  8. “I was offering proof of that, as you requested: when we acted better (as a nation), we were better liked.”
    1.
    You offered no proof , they hated us back then, but they needed us because they did afraid soviets. That what it is. You have friends online over the world and I did travel over the world I can tell you same people who hate us today did hate us back then . now they just more vocal and arrogant just because they do not need us any more to be protected from the USSR
    2. concrete question: you think during 90s we “acted better” ? may be you finally will answer my question ( 3rd time asked) Was bombing Serbs an “unprovoked attack on other countries,”? what Serbs did do to USA to be attacked?

    “You again are trying to say that Islam is a seamless movement. It is, in fact, a great diversity, just as is Christianity (as I tried to point out with the WW II example).”
    About divisions in Islam see my previous post.
    About WW2 : was WW2 a religious war? NO
    Is jihad a religious war ? YES
    There are is no comparison

    “I brought it up because you asked “why would we care?” which I interpreted to mean, “Why would we care about what other countries think about the US?” And that, of course, reminded me of 9/11.”

    Precisely!! And one more time : Correct me if I am wrong 9/11 happened before “broad domestic surveillance, secret prisons, torture, unprovoked attacks on other countries,” and it happened despite American support to Muslims in Balkans against Serbs. Prove me wrong .

    Like

    2008voter

    7 January 2008 at 5:47 pm

  9. “So far as thinking all Muslims are the same, you seem to be saying that our helping the Muslims in Bosnia did not help us with respect to the Muslims in Saudi Arabia, which I (apparently mistakenly) thought that you saw as being more or less of the same belief. Of course, I think everyone knows now. “

    I do not know what “everyone knows about the divisions among the Muslims” but seems you do not know ( or do not want to know because it is outside 7 years term ) about closest possible connections between Saudis , al Qaeda and Bosnians Muslims.
    So please use some informational aid:

    1.
    everyone knows that “Bosnian Mujahideen (also referred to as El Mujaheed or El Mujahid) is the term often used for the Muslim volunteers to fight on the Bosnian government side during the 1992-1995 Bosnian War. The number of volunteers is estimated to have been about 4,000[1] with the majority coming from countries such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Algeria and Saudi Arabia . However, a certain number of local Bosniaks also joined to fight alongside the foreign Mujahideen. In addition to the Mujahideen volunteers, there were also several hundred Iranian Revolutionary Guards supporting the Bosnian government during the war. [2][3][4] Many of the Bosnian Mujahideen were supported financially from Saudi Arabia, including persons and organizations later connected with Al-Qaeda”

    What divisions you see in excerpt above? This is the concrete question and I would appreciate the concrete answer.
    2.
    everyone knows that Bosnian Muslims were supporters and supported by Al Qaeda. : “London’s The Spectator has noted, “If Western intervention in Afghanistan created the mujahedin, Western intervention in Bosnia appears to have globalised it.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Mujahideen
    would you argue with that ? it means that Clinton was using USA force to support Al; Qaeda in Bosnia and globalized Jihad movement/ Bush had to deal with repercussions of this policies
    3.
    everyone knows that “The 9/11 Commission Report says that al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar were two of the first four terrorists hand-picked by Osama bin Laden to participate in a United States terrorist operation using hijacked planes.” And in “1995, he and Khalid al-Mihdhar went to fight for the Bosnian Muslim side in the Bosnian war.”

    Like

    2008voter

    7 January 2008 at 5:48 pm

  10. “You know, as I read the rest of your comment, I am overcome with a great weariness. I will convince you of nothing. Let us leave it at that”.
    Whatever
    Do not try to convince me just answer at least two of my questions;
    #1 . did 9/11 happened before “broad domestic surveillance, secret prisons, torture, unprovoked attacks on other countries,”
    #2. Was bombing Serbs an “unprovoked attack on other countries,”?
    And if you cannot answer these simple questions do not pretend please that it is my fault that you cannot convince me.:)

    Like

    2008voter

    7 January 2008 at 5:53 pm

  11. 9/11, as we now know, did not happen before broad (illegal) domestic surveillance. That apparently started in February 2001, 7 months before 9/11.

    I believe that our intervention in Serbia was sanctioned by the UN, unlike our intervention in Iraq.

    Like

    LeisureGuy

    7 January 2008 at 6:17 pm

  12. “9/11, as we now know, did not happen before broad (illegal) domestic surveillance. That started in February 2001, 7 months before 9/11.”
    apparently ??? any facts? any link? what are your sources?

    Like

    2008voter

    7 January 2008 at 6:41 pm

  13. If you Google “surveillance february 2001” you can find several references. Here’s one. And here’s another.

    Like

    LeisureGuy

    7 January 2008 at 7:44 pm

  14. This is what I thought:
    “The filings were made as Mr. Nacchio fought charges of insider trading.”
    insider trading :))): Very reliable source. In any way if “Spy Agency Sought Surveillance Help Before 9/11“ so what? Did any law was broken? They asked and they was turned out. Anything wrong with asking? Besides, the case is still in court . How about innocent until proven guilty?
    “Alleging NSA Started Domestic Phone Record Program 7 Months Before 9/11“
    you can allege what you want. You will prove that a law was broken then we will talk.

    In the meantime the fact that the war in Yugoslavia was neither approved by UN nor by Senate and therefore illegal is a proven fact .

    What about that ?

    One more time :was it “unprovoked attack on other country” ?
    How Yugoslavia did provoke USA?

    Was it legal in your view?
    Was it moral in your view?

    How could you miss the fact which everyone knows that Clinton with Yugoslavia (unlike Bush with Iraq ) even did not try to get approval of UN and even did not ask senate? May be it is a time for you to see things as they are beyond “6 years, 3 months, 27 days”?

    Like

    2008voter

    7 January 2008 at 8:42 pm


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